Hotshot CAI - Design Flaw? Input (Rafi??)

[sleekpowa]

Months back I posted a thread about


Sudden Lose of All Clutch Pressure
Minimal Clutch Pressure when Disengaging
Heavy Grinding of 2nd gear, Minus Grinding of Third


These all popped up the same day I installed my Hotshot Intake (Elbow/Downpipe) picked up from Rafi. I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out what was up, and found what I thought was the problem, a loose clutch line.. Turns out that line was never a problem, so I un-installed the Hotshot and went back to a filter on vaf setup... Magically, the problems all disappeared and never came back. The issue was I could not exceed 5K Rpms in either 1st or 2nd without grinding the next gear, and having a hard time getting the car out of gear. It was also a very sparatic condition


Anyways to make a long story short, I spent the last week or so doing some R&D on the pipes, and came up with this conclusion.

The Hotshot Downpipe has a flange on it that attaches to the bolt left from the stock airbox. For starters, The hole is not large enough to fit the thread through and the flattened area comes NO where close to making it fight. It almost turns my pipe sideways and will not allow it to go down.

So I installed it anyways and let it sit there.. attached everything up, and got in the car. Went for a spin.. Bang, Theres that Grinding again, as well as complete loss of clutch pressure on the startup (You have to manually pump the clutch to get pressure back)... So that proves my first thought...

I then took it to the garage, but it on stands, and had my brother come outside, get in start the car.. I got underneath and looked up at the Slave Rod, and watched it come out.. It hits the downpipe.. Having my brother go into gear, and rev her out into 2nd on the stands (yes I know stupid, but only once) it clearly makes contact with the downpipe, Severaly limiting its travel and as a result throws all pressure and disengagement out the window...

Has anyone else had this problem at all. I purchased this intake through the BB rafi held in the summer, and am curious to hear his thoughts. I am also quite curious if anyone here has experienced anything of the such. Under no circumstances am I bashing either of the two, I just think I have a bad downpipe and am wanting to see what either will do. I checked the mounts of several other hotshots posted in the Pic Post, and all bolt to that thread easily.. Mine is no where close.

Im gonna take this to Hotshot and see what they say, but Rafi please chime in

Thanks ahead guys!

[Rafi]

Originally posted by sleekpowa
Months back I posted a thread about


Sudden Lose of All Clutch Pressure
Minimal Clutch Pressure when Disengaging
Heavy Grinding of 2nd gear, Minus Grinding of Third


These all popped up the same day I installed my Hotshot Intake (Elbow/Downpipe) picked up from Rafi. I spent a fair bit of time trying to figure out what was up, and found what I thought was the problem, a loose clutch line.. Turns out that line was never a problem, so I un-installed the Hotshot and went back to a filter on vaf setup... Magically, the problems all disappeared and never came back. The issue was I could not exceed 5K Rpms in either 1st or 2nd without grinding the next gear, and having a hard time getting the car out of gear. It was also a very sparatic condition


Anyways to make a long story short, I spent the last week or so doing some R&D on the pipes, and came up with this conclusion.

The Hotshot Downpipe has a flange on it that attaches to the bolt left from the stock airbox. For starters, The hole is not large enough to fit the thread through and the flattened area comes NO where close to making it fight. It almost turns my pipe sideways and will not allow it to go down.

So I installed it anyways and let it sit there.. attached everything up, and got in the car. Went for a spin.. Bang, Theres that Grinding again, as well as complete loss of clutch pressure on the startup (You have to manually pump the clutch to get pressure back)... So that proves my first thought...

I then took it to the garage, but it on stands, and had my brother come outside, get in start the car.. I got underneath and looked up at the Slave Rod, and watched it come out.. It hits the downpipe.. Having my brother go into gear, and rev her out into 2nd on the stands (yes I know stupid, but only once) it clearly makes contact with the downpipe, Severaly limiting its travel and as a result throws all pressure and disengagement out the window...

Has anyone else had this problem at all. I purchased this intake through the BB rafi held in the summer, and am curious to hear his thoughts. I am also quite curious if anyone here has experienced anything of the such. Under no circumstances am I bashing either of the two, I just think I have a bad downpipe and am wanting to see what either will do. I checked the mounts of several other hotshots posted in the Pic Post, and all bolt to that thread easily.. Mine is no where close.

Im gonna take this to Hotshot and see what they say, but Rafi please chime in

Thanks ahead guys!


Honestly.... I've never, ever heard of this problem! And there are literally hundreds and hundreds of these intakes out there. The only problem I hear of (and this occurs very rarely) is when people overtighten the band clamps to the VAF and the plunger inside tends to get stuck which causes the car to stumble and do weird things.

-Rafi

[93GTSR]

you know, ive had this problem on two probes. just been too damn lazy to post about it :lol:

First one is jackies PGT. Her car is hard as hell to get into 3rd sometimes. I found that when i took the intake off, it was fine. Then i noticed that it was hitting the slave cyl. arm and i made it so it wouldnt hit anymore. problem fixed...

The next one is a little worse. My cousin starting having tranny problems a few months ago. His car would grind 2nd pretty badly all the time, and 3rd sometimes. Now that i think about it, it started around thet ime he got the HS intake :( And his clutch petal is the same way, he has to lift it back upw ith his foot sometimes, and has to pump it to get pressure. We have spent way to much time trying to fix this (new master cyl, new slave cyl, new clutch line, etc... :argh:) with no help. Im going to call him tomorrw and tell him to take the intake off, and see if the problem goes away. But judging by the sounds his tranny makes no, even with the intake off, its still ruined. :( Thanks HOTSHOT :tdown:

Ty

[dmark101]

hmm.

i've have two hotshots. one on my mx-6 and my pgt. NONE have had these problems.

ever.


/me thinks the problem lay with the installers.

[sleekpowa]

Rafi- Thats understood.. Now seeing as Ty has backed up my theroy as well, what can we do about this. I am definatly excited by what Hotshot has to offer, and I know they stand behind thier products. I have my down pipe off now...

Can something be done about this at all? obviously with another reputable member backing it up, We do see a problem here...

Thanks for the response, If possible do you an email address for Hotshot that I can send this to?
Thanks

[Rafi]

Originally posted by 93GTSR
you know, ive had this problem on two probes. just been too damn lazy to post about it :lol:

First one is jackies PGT. Her car is hard as hell to get into 3rd sometimes. I found that when i took the intake off, it was fine. Then i noticed that it was hitting the slave cyl. arm and i made it so it wouldnt hit anymore. problem fixed...

The next one is a little worse. My cousin starting having tranny problems a few months ago. His car would grind 2nd pretty badly all the time, and 3rd sometimes. Now that i think about it, it started around thet ime he got the HS intake :( And his clutch petal is the same way, he has to lift it back upw ith his foot sometimes, and has to pump it to get pressure. We have spent way to much time trying to fix this (new master cyl, new slave cyl, new clutch line, etc... :argh:) with no help. Im going to call him tomorrw and tell him to take the intake off, and see if the problem goes away. But judging by the sounds his tranny makes no, even with the intake off, its still ruined. :( Thanks HOTSHOT :tdown:

Ty


Ok, but if a tranny started making 'grinding' sounds like that, why would he continue to grind it until he ruined it?...

I mean, if there is a problem, I'd like to get to the bottom of it, but there have to be like 1000's+ HS intakes out there and no one has ever posted or emailed me about this until this thread!

-Rafi

[sleekpowa]

Originally posted by dmark101
hmm.

i've have two hotshots. one on my mx-6 and my pgt. NONE have had these problems.

ever.


/me thinks the problem lay with the installers.

Before jumping to conclusions, and laying blame on installers, which by the way, I would someone of Ty Saxon's calibre would have NO problem installing a Hotshot, and keep in mind that Jackies is the old RickRust car.... (And by no way am I laying blame, Im just pointing out fact) check your downpipes and see if the Slave Rod has made contact. As well, Do yours bolt up to the threaded screw on the flange

I will be happy to provide pictures of the said issue upon request. I will just have to slide the intake back in place and go from there...I have even hammered out the bracket, and it doesnt line up at all. It is about 1 inch short....

Edit : Rafi, If you do a search, I posted about this as well, sometime around August IIRC. General consensus IIRC was the Slave Rod making contact with the downpipe

[Rafi]

I will ask HS to check the fit and make sure there is adequate clearance... maybe a few of the brackets weren't quite bent right.

I am sure you can just bend the bracket a bit to get the pipe to adequately clear the slave cylinder??

-Rafi

[sleekpowa]

Originally posted by Rafi
I will ask HS to check the fit and make sure there is adequate clearance... maybe a few of the brackets weren't quite bent right.

I am sure you can just bend the bracket a bit to get the pipe to adequately clear the slave cylinder??

-Rafi

True, But in a buyers opinoin paying for a product at that price, You would except it would bolt up. I believe your statement is correct, being the brackets are not on correct. If I rotate the pipe to get it near the bolt, The pipe will NOT clear the battery.... The downpipe I have does not look similar to some of those I have seen.

Im not trying to be an ass, but for the money, it shouldnt cause a problem such as this. Frankly, I have been incredibly busy and unable to test it until now, but there was a post prior.


Edit : I also have no problem at all sending my Downpipe to Hotshot, in exchange for another and seeing if it makes a difference. If Hotshot wants to go ahead and proactively send a pipe to me, I will be happy to compare side by side and notate the differences...

[c-man]

If you let the intake sag, it will do this. I notied this before my old motor blew. The problem is easily fixed my mounting the intake to allow the proper clearance. I bought my hotshot back in 1998 or so and the bracket never lined up. All I did was get a piece of metal to "extend" the bracket to fit correctly.

[93GTSR]

Originally posted by Rafi
Ok, but if a tranny started making 'grinding' sounds like that, why would he continue to grind it until he ruined it?...

I mean, if there is a problem, I'd like to get to the bottom of it, but there have to be like 1000's+ HS intakes out there and no one has ever posted or emailed me about this until this thread!

-Rafi

B/C were not made of money :shrug: If you hear a grinding going into a gear, you just immediatly replace/rebuild? Most probe owners will drive on it until it cant be driven anymore.

I'll call my cousin today, and have him take the downpipe off and see if it helps at all. Im not blaming it on the intake just yet, but when i thought about it, it DID start happening right when he put the intake on :shrug:

We'll see, he'll test it out today :)

Ty

[93GTSR]

BTW: maybe this is a newer design?? I had a HS intake before i went turbo, and never had one problem with it :shrug:

The bracket 'apears' the same, but i dont know. Its been so long since i really looked at one, i dont know.

Ty

[Rick_96PGT]

Is it a Canadian CAI? Canadian engines are about 30% differant. :lol: :P

[rolllin247]

I had the same problem when I had it on my '96, its really an easy fix. Just take it off that bolt so it just hangs there. Then have someone push the clutch in and adjust the downpipe to where it is out of the way ( make sure clutch is to the floor). Then throw the filter on from underneath the car and rest it on that plastic splash guard underneath. If I remeber correctly I took one of the screws out of the plastic splash guard to get the filter to sit in there nice and tight. I never lost a filter and never had a problem in the rain. Your filter just sits a little lower than most but I had no problems with it after that. When I tried to bolt the downpipe on (where the stock airbox bolted on) I also had the clutch pedal stick to the floor.

[Omaha95PGT]

I don't see how this can be Hotshot's problem. It seems to be an installer's problem.

If there seems to be a clearance issue, just make an adjustment. Either manipulate the existing bracket or buy $3 worth of 1/16" thick 1-1/2" wide steel or aluminum sheet and some fasteners. Cut the sheet to fit and it will fix any fitment/clearance issues.

Hotshot will probably tell you to take up the issue with the installer of your CAI.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask HS to send you another downpipe in trade for the one you think is faulty. :shrug:

[c-man]

Originally posted by Omaha95PGT
I don't see how this can be Hotshot's problem. It seems to be an installer's problem.

If there seems to be a clearance issue, just make an adjustment. Either manipulate the existing bracket or buy $3 worth of 1/16" thick 1-1/2" wide steel or aluminum sheet and some fasteners. Cut the sheet to fit and it will fix any fitment/clearance issues.

Hotshot will probably tell you to take up the issue with the installer of your CAI.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask HS to send you another downpipe in trade for the one you think is faulty. :shrug:

Yup. The design is the same and has been for all these years. It is a very simple fix if you can't line it up right.

[naustin]

Aren't there two different hotshot CAIs? One for the MTX car and one for the ATX car.

Maybe this is what happens if you put the ATX downpipe on an MTX car??

:shrug:

[sleekpowa]

Originally posted by naustin
Aren't there two different hotshot CAIs? One for the MTX car and one for the ATX car.

Maybe this is what happens if you put the ATX downpipe on an MTX car??

:shrug:

Not even close

Im not asking for a trade or what not, I made a post and I am not bitching about it... Just making a point...

The main point is this... When you pay $170 for an intake, You expect it to at least bolt up right, not be short. Im not being an ass about it, just stating fact.. I will make an adjustment to the bracket, but in the first place I shouldnt have to

[c-man]

2 things.

1) Mine didn't line up in 1998, when an atx intake wasn't even born yet.

2) Whichever car was originally used was either misaligned with a bad mount, etc or the fabrication got tweaked.

I thought the same thing when I first bought it. I think since the correction was simple enough for me to fix, I didn't get too upset. In contrast, my B&M sts fit like ass, and I ended up throwing it in a corner of the garage somewhere. :lol:

[CajunCC]

Never buy aftermarket parts and expect them to fit like OEM parts. It's never ever going to happen. There's a reason you pay out the ass at a dealer for parts. It's not extortion, it's just that you get what you pay for. OEM parts have countless hours of R&D and plenty of quality control to ensure you get a great part for your car. Aftermarket parts, on the other hand, are cheaper because there's not quite as much involved. It doesn't have the same amount of R&D or the same quality control as OEM parts. That's also why your car becomes less reliable when you start modifying it. Bottom line is, if you want something to fit perfectly out of the box, head to a Mazda dealer. Otherwise, you'd better be ready to make some modifications.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just kinda annoyed lately with people complaining about parts that aren't perfect.

[spada]

are zipties out of fashion now? they fix everything

[pgt95]

Originally posted by spada
are zipties out of fashion now? they fix everything

No doubt, new bolts for mt brake calipers were hella expensive, a 50 pack fo industrial zip ties was 2.49. Also, dont buy a new clutch, just spary your old disk with harispray, i can get 3-5 good runs per can! :spin:

[CajunCC]

Originally posted by pgt95
No doubt, new bolts for mt brake calipers were hella expensive, a 50 pack fo industrial zip ties was 2.49. Also, dont buy a new clutch, just spary your old disk with harispray, i can get 3-5 good runs per can! :spin:

Try duct taping the friction surface and THEN applying hairspray. The thickness of the duct tape will give you a little more longetivity. ;)

[pgt95]

Originally posted by CajunCC
Try duct taping the friction surface and THEN applying hairspray. The thickness of the duct tape will give you a little more longetivity. ;)

Adding thickness back to the plate, good call! I also try to fill all the seamsi n my tires with hot glue, its cheap and increases contact area ALOT.... going fast dosent HAVE to cost alot.... ;)

My firned has this problem (origional topic) so i will look into his as well, I havent installed HS CAI so i dont know about ease of instal but i will report back!

[naustin]

Originally posted by c-man

1) Mine didn't line up in 1998, when an atx intake wasn't even born yet.


:bow:

Well for all of us that haven't put their hotshot on yet, this thread is good warning and will serve to head-off a keniption-fit by preparing us for the possibility that it won't quite fit.

I always thought the Hotshot was perfect....:(

[sleekpowa]

Originally posted by CajunCC

I hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just kinda annoyed lately with people complaining about parts that aren't perfect.

Im not complaining.. Man, Read the threads...

I merely stated a fact. There is a difference about fit being slightly off, and a good inch or two. I'm not saying boycott HotShot, Im not saying Hotshot Sucks...Im stating a fact to those who go ahead, so as stated above, There isnt a problem for them.

I have 0 problems making a chance to the intake, its a point of fact.. period

[rolllin247]

dude you asked a question in the name of the thread. I gave everyone the easiest solution, dont use the mounting bracket, just let it hang there.

[CajunCC]

Originally posted by sleekpowa
True, But in a buyers opinoin paying for a product at that price, You would except it would bolt up.

...

Im not trying to be an ass, but for the money, it shouldnt cause a problem such as this. Frankly, I have been incredibly busy and unable to test it until now, but there was a post prior.


That's the part I was referring to. I'm not being insulting or anything. I'm just saying that people in general seem to overlook the fact that 99% of aftermarket parts don't fit without some modification. Believe me, it's not just you. It happens mostly with body kits and headers and stuff, but it's all the same thing. Aftermarket parts generally fit like crap. :lol: It sucks, but it's true. This thread does serve as a good warning to those people who expect it to fit like OEM though. :)

[ouch1011]

I have a complaint.


What is the $170 going towards if it isn't going towards R&D for a perfect fit? Certainly not materials... :shrug:

I've always had that problem with aftermarket parts, especially intake and exhaust parts. They cost 100x what they should, and almost always fit like shit.


Sorry for temporarily hijacking the thread.

[Omaha95PGT]

Originally posted by ouch1011

What is the $170 going towards if it isn't going towards R&D for a perfect fit? Certainly not materials... :shrug:

I've always had that problem with aftermarket parts, especially intake and exhaust parts. They cost 100x what they should, and almost always fit like shit.


The R&D that they probably spent was the cost of a free prototype intake for some Probe GT owner who brought their car in for initial fitment, some labor costs, material costs and some general overhead costs (packaging, advertising, office/garage costs). The R&D was payed off long ago. What you are paying for is the HotShot name and a performance part that doesn't have too many competitors. A good deal of that $170 is pure profit.

[CajunCC]

Well they obviously have manufacturing costs and quality control costs and such. But compare it to the OEM version of the same part. You'd pay a lot more for OEM because it's better quality. It fits better and works better, so you pay more.

[onlyp]

I'm too lazy to go thru all the posts.

But, yes, I do have the same problems as well. Found out long after I installed it tho. I just twisted the down pipe to get it out of the slave cylinder rod/fork thingie. As for the flange thing, it never fits. But, the coupler on the VAF alone is enough to hold the pipe in place.

IMO, anything HS is overpriced. I do have both HS CAI&headers tho.

[Turkish]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/gallery/40045/35bae47f48df9907673cc851f24c2dba.jpg

I installed HotShot CAI and headers in April. Had to make a slight mod to the headers... otherwise they were both very good products.:tup:

[93GTSR]

BTW: My cousin took his DP off the intake.......NO MORE GRINDING :)

He loves his car again :)

Ty

[ElectricBlue_GT]

I'm gonna try this myself. I have a tough time getting my car into 1st gear sometimes, slipping clutch (on shifts only, not if I hammer it @ 4500RPM) and I had a grinding into 2nd gear that, but that went away when I switched to GM Syncromesh.

Mine isn't a Hotshot, but rather the Prelude CAI modded, but it's the same idea. I'll have to check for clearance. My clutch started "slipping" several months ago, and hasn't got any worse, even with me beating on it... Maybe it's not really the clutch?