advice on my plans

[farvaric]

okay, originally i wanted to boost my probe, but i cant justify me spending 4-5g's for only being able to run 6 psi safely. i then decided to switch to a...

-full klze setup
-zex wet 75 shot(bhp)
-zex plugs
-fpr
-255lph fp
-ground wires
-voltage stabilizer
-test pipe
-67 bored tb without restrictor plate(good/bad??)
-2 digital msd window switches set to proper open/close points for vris# 1, 2
-ported and polished heads
-knife edged and hand polished IM
-ssautochrome headers
-all along with my intake and greddy sp
-my mx3 flywheel and xtd stage 3 clutch and sts and nitto 555/555r's on 17x7's instead of my 18x8 konig r's would be the last parts and pieces to go in .

i think thats about all, i probobly left some stuff out??? but those are the major parts. i had already bout the klze IM, TB, and cams to drop into the kl03 to max out boost gains. my kl03 only has 86,000 ( i say only so i can justify not needing to drop a grand for a new motor if its not needed).

basically, i want all your input on whether to go with the full klze, or to stay with my kl03 with 86,000 and bump to a 100 shot zex wet system setup and maybe throw in a fmu(i dont think it is needed though seeing zex has a logic box). the fact that i would be losing out on, i believe around 6-8whp from lack of .8:1 compression is overcome and overlooked by the ability to up a larger dose of nitrous or at least be safer if i only stayed with a 75 shot. so run a full blooded klze or run full hybrid kl03/ze with port matched heads. thanks again to all you guys who have helped me thus far.

-kyle

p.s. pls include your "..yes ways/...noway in hells..." and add major parts as seen fit to my list, like i said, i know i left some minor things out like my gauges to watch bottle pressure and a/f ratio and fpr rate.

[pgtfreak]

Don't go above a 85hp shot. Besides the fact that many don't see real increases above an 85hp shot (unless going with custom cams), you're jumping into the DE's threshhold.
Don't waste money on special plugs, just buy some normal, non-platinum (ESPECIALLY with nitrous), NGK heat range 7 plugs (stock PGT heat range 6 is fine for nitrous up to a 50hp shot)


67 bored tb without restrictor plate

Not sure what you mean by restrictor plate. Unless you're talking about a block off for the IAC. If that's the case, it'll be fine.


Sounds like you've pretty much got it thought out, and will be good to go.

[Snowseeker]

I would skip the ported and polished heads and put forged pistons in a DE and shoot 100 - 150 at it.

[farvaric]

thanks for the replies. what are your thoughts on the fmu, i am thinking that there will be no need. i know i have to be missing something through. i wanted to get a set of millenia s injectors, but i dont see much anymore. well i got a lot of the major parts in my list, but my klze cams, i believe number 4, has the lock key tor out, damn that bastard who sold them to me, so i am trying to find just that one cam or the pair instead of a whole new set. anyone has a set let me know. i would like to get more opinions from others to make sure all saftey for the setup is reached. i am pleased to see others thought the setup is looking okay so far. i know others would rather see me get a 5115 kit.

[proboner]

if your getting a wet kit fuel is already taken care of, so theres no need for an fmu or upgraded injectors

[farvaric]

thats good to know, i was just always taught that with our 2g pgt's overkill is okay so we stay as far away from detonating as possible. but i didnt think that the fmu would be necessary. thank you for confirming that.

more opinions and advices are welcomed. i have yet to still get many parts so if there is something someone would like to add i would apprecciate it. but then i should probably be happy to see that people see that there isnt too much polishing to do with my list and setup i plan to run. keep em coning if you feel it is important though, personal experiences is how we really find the true potential of our cars and similar setups.

-kyle

[XsithX]

-I'd just turbo your DE and forget the engine swap/n2o.
-The general consensus is that porting/polishing heads isn't worth the money/trouble.
-If you explain to me exactly what your goal is I'll give you my opinion on wht to do further.

[farvaric]

[QUOTE=XsithX-If you explain to me exactly what your goal is I'll give you my opinion on wht to do further.[/QUOTE]

i wanted to boost my DE with the addition of dropping in my ZE parts(ie:IM,Cams,TB) but it is only safe to run boost around 6psi which is only good enough(this is gonna be a real ricer thing to say) to pull low 14's to high 13's. i see some have ran 10psi, but not for long. i could be wrong, but i am sure with some of my better driving that is what i could muster out of it. i want to boost, its how all previous cars were, but i cant justify right now dropping 4-5g's for only being able run 6psi safely.

on that note i decided i wanted to run a juiced ZE, but i feel that my DE has a little more youth left, it has been a big topic and when one should get a ZE. so i was wondering if i should just do a hybrid and up the juice. i was going to run a zex wet kit along with a maximizer kit installed to guarantee pressure in the lines and to have a back up secondary bottle.

so i would like the car's capabilities to be this with my set up in the starting post:

-pull in the 13's(low hopefully, but we wont know till this is all set and brought to the track)

-pull hard off the bottle

-reliability(hence running on the bottle)

-and to look and sound good when doing all the above :ohyeah:

only real question isnt whether to boost or not, its whether to go full klze, or stay hybrid.

advantage of full klze is i would have a lower mileage motor, but the higher compression is not in favor of nitrous but is in favor when i am running off the nitrous. advantage of staying with my DE is i dont need to spend 1300 for a shipped motor and i can run nitrous a little safer or put in the same risk just off of a larger shot. the problem with the DE is that it has 86,000 on it and i have to change my valve cover gaskets, get new plugs put in with my new wires(cause bank one isnt firing with a crapped out wire and the oil build up because of my gaskets. its sort of unsettling). this will all be replaced of course.

so i want your opinion of what to choose between the two, KLZE or hybrid, to be ran on my planned set up. i have all the other major organs, i just need the right heart(best analogy :spin: ). everyones opinion is welcomed and sought after, i know others are thinking or running a similar setup but ask the same exact question, so this benefits others.

:thanks:

p.s. i wish i had your car and i would be done with it :ohyeah:

[XsithX]

i wanted to boost my DE with the addition of dropping in my ZE parts(ie:IM,Cams,TB) but it is only safe to run boost around 6psi which is only good enough(this is gonna be a real ricer thing to say) to pull low 14's to high 13's. i see some have ran 10psi, but not for long. i could be wrong, but i am -sure with some of my better driving that is what i could muster out of it. i want to boost, its how all previous cars were, but i cant justify right now dropping 4-5g's for only being able run 6psi safely

You can't really go on just psi since it would obviously differ from different sized turbos. My car was successful boosted for over 2 years(prior to me owning it). That's with stock DE heads, cams, and IM. 90k+ miles on it currently and no signs of going anytime soon. The 294whp was at 10psi with a pretty nasty exhaust leak and somewhat rich. I'd say thats reason enough to justify dropping the 4-5 grand.


-pull in the 13's(low hopefully, but we wont know till this is all set and brought to the track)
-Turbo DE


-pull hard off the bottle
-Turbo DE


-reliability
-Turbo DE


-and to look and sound good when doing all the above :ohyeah:
-Turbo DE


only real question isnt whether to boost or not, its whether to go full klze, or stay hybrid.
-Depends on how much money you want to spend.


advantage of full klze is i would have a lower mileage motor, but the higher compression is not in favor of nitrous but is in favor when i am running off the nitrous.
-Tons of people on here run n2o on ZE's.


so i want your opinion of what to choose between the two, KLZE or hybrid, to be ran on my planned set up.
-It's really up to how much money you'd like to spend. Turbo is definitely the way to go if you want the highest numbers and at all times.


p.s. i wish i had your car and i would be done with it :ohyeah:
My current car is a '97 Toyota Tacoma, I don't think you want that. :mario:

[farvaric]

may i ask where you got your piping, actually pm me this is off topic, back on topic...more opinions. lets try not to make this a nitrous turbo war though

[mvaughn1]

it sounds like you're looking for a consistent 13sec car, not just a car to spray only on the track. If that is true, you'll spend thousands over a few years refilling the bottle(s).

If you're happy w/ a mid 14's daily car (I know I would/will be) then go with your list of stuff and spray only when you want to hit the 13's.

If you're looking for reliability, then you're probably not going to find it in any of these equations. I'm talking about stock probe or honda reliability. The reliability between the DE/ZE will be about the same assuming you are doing the installs and will be able to fix it when it breaks.

If I were in your shoes and were gonna spend 5k and was looking for something faster than what the N/A probe can realistically deliver, then I would spend it on a turbo set up but again you'll be forever tuning and wanting new parts for it. The way I see it, you can spend 20k (or finance) on a new car that isn't as cool, or put 5-6K into building one hell of a probe.

Another thing you need to consider is what you're gonna do for brakes, trannies, suspension to handle all this power. Clearly you don't need big brakes to go fast but you will need bigger brakes when you're pullin hard and need to stop when you just stopped a few minutes ago and your stock brakes are already mushy and toasted.

Trannies are a big problem when you're pushing big power so you have to consider what you're going to do about it (hint: not much you can do). It's weird though, many people here run 200+whp with no prob, and a lot of others have gone through multiple trannies....maybe it's not so weird....I can't really talk as I'm not one of them.

Good luck!

Mike

[jimmyDaSnake]

sell the probe and buy a dsm....that's would i should of done.....

[farvaric]

it sounds like you're looking for a consistent 13sec car, not just a car to spray only on the track. If that is true, you'll spend thousands over a few years refilling the bottle(s).

If you're happy w/ a mid 14's daily car (I know I would/will be) then go with your list of stuff and spray only when you want to hit the 13's.

If you're looking for reliability, then you're probably not going to find it in any of these equations. I'm talking about stock probe or honda reliability. The reliability between the DE/ZE will be about the same assuming you are doing the installs and will be able to fix it when it breaks.

If I were in your shoes and were gonna spend 5k and was looking for something faster than what the N/A probe can realistically deliver, then I would spend it on a turbo set up but again you'll be forever tuning and wanting new parts for it. The way I see it, you can spend 20k (or finance) on a new car that isn't as cool, or put 5-6K into building one hell of a probe.

Another thing you need to consider is what you're gonna do for brakes, trannies, suspension to handle all this power. Clearly you don't need big brakes to go fast but you will need bigger brakes when you're pullin hard and need to stop when you just stopped a few minutes ago and your stock brakes are already mushy and toasted.

Trannies are a big problem when you're pushing big power so you have to consider what you're going to do about it (hint: not much you can do). It's weird though, many people here run 200+whp with no prob, and a lot of others have gone through multiple trannies....maybe it's not so weird....I can't really talk as I'm not one of them.

Good luck!

Mike

this post hits the nail on the head pretty much for what i expect out of my car, exactly actually. i want my car to pull hard off of the bottle which to me is mid 14's. i am very happy with that, then 13's with the bottle. basically i want it to run good as my daily driver going between traffic and getting ahead of the line of traffic off the line before the third lane merges into the second :ohyeah: . then, when it comes down to someone wanting to truly run...i will hit the juice. thank you for seeing and explaining it better than i could mike. this post states exactly what i want and what i am expecting.

only thing is, what is your opinion, i will run this setup no matter what, but should i get a klze, or should i just drop in my klze parts into my kl03 with 86000 to make it a hybrid and run the setup above? this is the true heart of this post and the answer i am actually looking for. i want the opinions from people who have experienced a motor stay alive or blown apart at this mileage. even if you feel you have an idea or an opinion, let me know. this thread is helping me alot. i have one person, who had one of the only material things on this planet(294whp probe) that could possibly make me trade in my family just to have that one thing,tell me that his motor was into the 100g range and still running strong. i just want to make sure i invest my money into the most suitable without throwing it away without a cause. thanks again guys.

[mvaughn1]

I'm glad that I could help you put it into words.... if this is so, then I'd say build one hell of a DE/ZE hybrid w/ cams, heads, and mani. Get all the bolt-ons you need and the car should have no problem smoking most every car on the street even off the bottle.

Now, as for the ZE option, remember all that the ZE entails....ECU, VAF, etc. Considering you're gonna rip apart the whole motor and replace rings, probably HLA's, and other various internals, as well as purchase all the ZE stuff to go on it, it might even be easier and just as cost effective to just buy the new motor. I would only stick w/ the DE if you know it's in perfect condition (203 compression or whatever max is) or are willing to rebuild. I'd also say stick with the DE if you're not willing to do the install yourself.

So, you said you got 86k, which you're right is still low-ish but I highly suggest you go ahead and rebuild it all. You're gonna have to put the ZE heads/cams on so it's all gotta come apart and you shouldn't skimp putting it back together. Your engine will be brand new again w/ full compression and ready to take anything you throw at it for the next 100k+ mi. Now, even though you don't have that many miles, the leaky VC gaskets scream neglect to me. My guess is your motor has passed it's prime and for the car that you want you're gonna have to start from the ground up. I personally would keep my motor because I know that it's in nearly new condition.

Mike

[farvaric]

Now, even though you don't have that many miles, the leaky VC gaskets scream neglect to me. My guess is your motor has passed it's prime and for the car that you want you're gonna have to start from the ground up. I personally would keep my motor because I know that it's in nearly new condition.

Mike


i agree the proplem was noticeable when i got it from the previous owner. i am the second owner. car was in great condition, no rust under chassis. engine was strong. but the problem just got worse. i need to get it fixed as soon as yesterday. leaky gasket is a no-no and i am ordering my gaskets tomorrow. i already have all the necessary ZE parts other than the heads, hence why i wanted to port out and polish the DE's.

i am thinking though, that since most ZE heads flow as good as ported and polished DE's and the simple fact that them come fully assembled, i should probably spend the 200-250 dollars for a set, what do you think. because in worse case scenario, when i take the heads apart, the problem area is going to lie in the heads and not the bottom end. so let me know what you think.

-kyle

[mvaughn1]

Yeah, but say you spend 250 on heads, probably 200ish for the cams you bought, and probably 150ish for the mani, add on all of the other expenses of gaskets (that's another 100+ for all of them), tools you need to buy, headaches you need to go thru disassembling/reassembling, it may be worth it in the end to buy the ZE.

I think that my point is that in the final product the $$$ would even out more or less between doing a solid rebuild w/ ZE parts or putting the ZE motor in. I think what we're really talking about is a time commitment. You'll need a lot more time to rebuild than it would take to put the motor in. Performance-wise the ZE will have more potential I think.

You can sell your ZE parts that you currently have and put that money into the motor, and you can also part out your old motor and make a couple hundred more towards the other motor. I parted my old car and sold many parts off of the stock motor, sensors, all the solenoids, A/C, alternator, disty, etc.

With your list of bolt-ons and a ZE you could expect a low to mid 14's car pretty easily if properly tuned.

Mike

[sids95pgt]

i just wanted to say that i had a 93 gt with 103k on it and ran nitrous for 1 summer and then sold the car to my friend and its still running strong. so im all for the nitrous.

[farvaric]

dont mean to revive an old thread, but i got screwed with my tax return due to a family matter, so the boosting project has come to a stand still. (oh, i was going with the supercharger, had the charger and was getting the kit, then i got screwed out for around 4 g's.) i have all the bolt ons we could possibly put on our cars, so either way, this summer i will be happy, so for now i will most likely run a wet kit to keep me happy and i will finish off the supercharger kit when time and money allows. i expect that off a zex wet 105 shot (crank) and all the ze parts and other bolt ons, i should see some 13's on the bottle. this would be on a modded DE.

[jokerswild8282]

sell the probe and buy a dsm....that's would i should of done.....

thats funny i wish i still had my dsm. but i love my probe to i wonder if i could make a dsm/ probe hybrid. lol i am glad that you are asking all these questions i was wonder all the same stuff myself. i know i dont plan on doing a ZE swap in mine but then again i am tearing down and completly rebuilding a DE the way i want it. i like your setup if is about the same setup that i was going to run on mine.(i look at all the parts all day sitting in my room) i am looking to get close to 250HP or a little less from mine. and if i cant get it there i will SC it