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  • #91
    Also, too, since we have a crank scraper pan, it really wouldn't do much.. There isn't much oil flailing from our cranks because of that.

    Rob

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    • #92
      Originally posted by EvilDave
      Still waiting for feedback on block boring, crankshaft knife edging, and hey thoughts on rockers, valves, springs,etc. wouldn't hurt either.
      Block boring: This well does add some power, but you have to consider on such a short stroked motor you wont get much of a displacement increase since displacement = bore x stroke.

      Vavles springs: Overall you dont need stronger or stiffer valve springs unless you are reving so high you hit a valve float condition. Stiffening these will make you loser power over the whole band, so unless you have some seriously aggressive or high peaking cams I say it is a waste as well.

      Rockers: I have no info on.

      Really for a naturally aspirated motor there are only 4 major ways to increase power.

      Increase Timing

      Decrease rotating mass

      Rev the hell out of it with cams

      Bore/Stroke i.e. displacement

      You can free up power by lubrication as well but that is rather secondary...like moly coating or top oilers

      With the Kl you have to realize we have an extreamly short stroked durable motor. I feel the best way to make power in a rebuild use stoke rods and pistons is cam and timing advance.

      Jeff Jeske is running a 100 shot of nitrous on stock rods and pistons. That is saying alot really. You arent going to break the motor through sheer power.

      Rafi of rr racing is at 287 whp which is above 300 at the crank and his block isnt melted

      There was a post about a euro company making 800 hp on a turbo kl motor....again block is good

      Then interprep raced these in endurance races and proved they way to make power and how durable these motors are.

      They put in alot of cam with flow benched heads. They kept the bottom end stock with 2 major exceptions. They used studs instead of bolts on the connecting rods...which upgrading to a 10mm bolt would be fine for most of us.

      They aspirated the crank with the oil pump shimmed.

      Concluding in my humble opinion there are only a few choices that need to be made when making a motor.

      Compression? anywhere from 9.2::1 to 11:1 i think is as high as you can get on pump 93 octane gas

      Mikes cams or interpreps racing grind

      Aspirating the crank? If you want to go for it bore them out 1mm all around as suggested.

      I think the top oiler thing is a really good idea

      I think the oil cooler is an excellent addition

      The accusump is great as well

      Anything else you do to your motor has to be based on your CR and your Cam otherwise you really dont know if you need them...

      As for head porting unless you pick the racing cam grind I would only do 2 things

      Oversize your valves 1mm or more if you can find them....yes they cost about 23 to 26 buck each, but if you do nitrous or turbo you will enjoy the gain very much.

      Secondly Just get the ports polished and dont port them. Unless you have a performance not a machinist....a performance shop with experiance in flow benching and porting heads I dont think it is worth it when using ze or mikes cams....No race interprep or simularly aggressive cams yes but make sure the shop knows thier stuff and can flow bench test them

      Overall the moral of the story is "It depends on where you are going with it"
      ¡Renewed Vigor!

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      • #93
        KaedenKy, thanks for your input. As it stands now, I am getting Mike's cams, will port and polish the heads, will explore the studs on the rods, bore the block 1mm and thought ought to do it.

        This is still going to be an n/a engine and I expect the c/r to be around 10.5:1. As to rotating mass, well I have the UDP and 9lb flywheel already and the consensus here is to not lighten the crank. After that, well i have just about every bolt-on known to Probe owners so we'll have to see what happens
        Cobra Commander was robbed. He should have been our 44th president.
        http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2463

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Promise:

          Originally posted by Bufalo
          Split Retainer + Envelope = In mail tomorrow.

          I held good on that too. You should see it in a plain envelope in a few days. It's just the split retainer taped to the inside of the envelope. I didn't suspect that any other written explanation inside was all that necessary.
          Greg Martin
          2009 BMW 328i
          2017 BMW X3
          1990 Probe LX

          Comment


          • #95
            Well I guess it is my turn. I was driving to work about 2 wweks ago and the motor started tapping. I put it in the shop and they told me I spun a rod bearing.

            Last Monday mI pulled my motor, and by Wednesday I had it completely torn down to just the block. Now I am having it rebuilt. I found this post after I had decided what I wanted to do. I had oregionally planned on over boring 0.040 and getting the short block totally rebuilt with turbo pistons. It seem I'm going in the right direction. Depending on how much it will cost I will be getting the Heads rebuilt and Ported and polished. My motor would be completely rebuilt at that point. Then By Winter I hope to have F/I installed and ready to go for next summer. Just the machine work is going to run me about $3,500.00. Now I'm realizing all the other stuff I need to do while I'm putting it back together.
            -Clutch $330.00 ATC from Corksport
            -Rear Motor mount $100 from corksport
            -Various gaskets for reassembling the motor aprox $100.00+
            -Then their are some cosmetic things I would like to get done under the hood as well probably no more than $100.00
            -New Driver side Axel $89.00


            So Basically when It's all said and done I will be looking at more like $4,200 unless I forgot anything. It sounds like a lot but I belive it will all pay off when I get F/I and can run upwards of 1 Bar or more boost.

            This is a great Post and very informative. Lets hope a lot of people can use this to their advantage.
            Lazer Red 97 PGT

            Comment


            • #96
              One thing I haven't seen mentioned is engine balancing. A smoother spinning rotating mass = less stress on everything, which means slightly quicker revving, and certain parts will last longer. I have absolutely no idea how much it would cost though.



              Originally posted by Bufalo
              I'm definitely doing an overbore when I rebuild my engine. CorkSport can source factory-overbore ZE pistons for the application.
              Those bastards! They wouldn't help me at all with getting factory overbore pistons for the FSZE 4 banger. I guess they just have no love for us poor little 2.0 guys

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Re: Promise:

                Originally posted by Bufalo
                I held good on that too. You should see it in a plain envelope in a few days. It's just the split retainer taped to the inside of the envelope. I didn't suspect that any other written explanation inside was all that necessary.

                Did it show up yet?
                Greg Martin
                2009 BMW 328i
                2017 BMW X3
                1990 Probe LX

                Comment


                • #98
                  Holy crap! ROB STOP!

                  Check this out!

                  Flatlander Rules!

                  I know there phone will be ringing alot. Someone find out how much.
                  Mike Evans
                  92 MX-3 GS MTX 2.5L
                  93 MX-3 GS SE MTX 1.8L

                  KL-DE/ZE, ZE ECU, KLZE pistons, Port/Polished DE heads, Stiffer Valve Springs, '96 Millenia Intake Manifold, 67mm TB, Clutchmasters Stage III, Fidanza Flywheel, and Walbro FP.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Zoso142
                    Holy crap! ROB STOP!

                    Check this out!

                    Flatlander Rules!

                    I know there phone will be ringing alot. Someone find out how much.
                    That they sell them isn't exactly a news flash. After speaking with Phil there about them a week ago, unless you have a MONSTER engine, they aren't worth the money.
                    Cobra Commander was robbed. He should have been our 44th president.
                    http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2463

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by EvilDave
                      That they sell them isn't exactly a news flash. After speaking with Phil there about them a week ago, unless you have a MONSTER engine, they aren't worth the money.
                      Oh I'm sorry when I read about Titanium retainers earlier in this thread I thought some one was kicking around the idea of making them out of it, did't know Flatlander was actually selling them. My bad
                      Mike Evans
                      92 MX-3 GS MTX 2.5L
                      93 MX-3 GS SE MTX 1.8L

                      KL-DE/ZE, ZE ECU, KLZE pistons, Port/Polished DE heads, Stiffer Valve Springs, '96 Millenia Intake Manifold, 67mm TB, Clutchmasters Stage III, Fidanza Flywheel, and Walbro FP.

                      Comment


                      • No, BUT, they have the measurements, which is a good thing.

                        I can just copy their measurements..

                        I will prlly make mine out of either stainless or 4130... Its VERY easy on the mill I have, about a 10 minute job per, and that is setup time mostly.

                        You are looking at at LEAST $300, and that comes out to 15 bux each.. Thats not a bad price honestly, and it will lower the valvetrain weight which isn't a bad thing either. I would say it will prlly go up to around $400-500 for our cars, since they are always more expensive.

                        Dunno.. I might be able to trick my cnc machine into milling titanium by overcorrecting backlash.. I know the motor is strong enough, just the table motors might need an upgrade.

                        Rob

                        Comment


                        • It is costing me $160.00 to have my motor balanced.....
                          $60.00 to shot peen my rods
                          $89.00 to bore 0.040 over

                          I got my final bid on my engin...Now they are paid in full and my motor will be done in about 4-6 weeks...$4792.81 was my total for labor and parts...
                          Lazer Red 97 PGT

                          Comment


                          • you forgot to have your rods retapped for 10mm ARP bolts... You might want to add about $100 for that while you have it all apart..

                            Rob

                            Comment


                            • I'm confused...should I do this engine rebuild if Im planning on getting the KLZE, or wait till I get that and then do an engine rebuild on that. What, out of this list of things to do in the engine rebuild, should I start out with and what will give me the best performance gain without blowing apart my engine in a few months of hard driving.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Re: Re: Promise:

                                Originally posted by Bufalo
                                Did it show up yet?

                                Yeah, but the insane mail service opened it and took the retainers out.. I guess they thought they were a key component in my doomsday device..

                                Little do they know I shipped those parts via UPS.

                                Its okay though, cause now I have measurements.

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