F2 to F2T Engine Swap Info...

[ricks89gl]

So you're interested in putting a GT engine (F2T) into your GL (F2) Ford Probe? Well so was I! So I started searching, and searching, and asking people on ProbeTalk for information on doing this such of a thing. I finally PMed a fella who goes by matt89glturbo. He sent me some useful information.

I have put the info Matt PMed me and combined it with the things he said in one of my threads. So hopefully this is a somewhat complete list of what is needed to do this swap...


Note: If you can get the F2T block/transmission as 1 piece, then you don't need to get a different clutch.
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GT engine

GT trans

GT clutch set up (slightly bigger)

GT ECU

Inter-cooler

I/C piping

GT engine wiring

GT axles (slightly bigger)

GT front hubs, but the brake rotors are the same on either car, GL brakes WILL work on GT hubs

GT sensors...There are about 3 sensors on the firewall that the GL doesn't have. take a look at your donor car (the easiest way to go) and compare the firewall to your car, all sensors that are not in your car, you'll need. And any sensors in the GL that the GT doesn't have you don't need-Also, there is a slight computer difference between 89 and 90-92 models, I'd recommend using a set-up form 90-92 to make things a little easier...

GT Shifter and Shift Linkage

GT Motor Mounts...the one on the front of the motor is the same on either model, but the 3 around the tranny are completely different-GL mounts WONT work on a GT trans.

That is about all the parts...It is easier if you are able to get a wrecked GT to steal parts off of, you will always run into a part you didn't know you needed, and it's nice to have the car there when you figure this out. Also, in the wiring, there are about 5-6 wires that you will need to put together. The GL chassis will have a 4 pin plug here, the GT wiring will have a 6 pin, but only five wires. They ARE the same wires...match them color to color ( I think one is green, and the other is a pinkish, and the third is another color, then there are the white/red ones. The GT side will have 2 of these, and the GL side will only have one. Just connect all three of these together, in the GT harness, these 2 just splice together anyway)

You can run the GT hubs with GL struts, and GT struts will bolt in, but making them adjustable is a lot of wiring, you can put them in, though, and have someone with a GT make a jumper wire from the friend's car (like 4 wires form a strut actuator to the other car's wiring, and have them set their ride control to what you want, and just go around the car (hard to explain...)

Gas door and popper trunk, all the trunks have the provisions fo rhte cable, just hook them up. FOr the gas door, remove both gas doors from the cars (2 or three bolts) on the GT the cable comes through the big nut, remove the nut and cable, and run it in the GL. In the GL in the same spot that rubber stop is welded into the same spot. Simply drill it out with the right size drill to get the cable through, and run it through and put on the GT door.

Rear suspension... remove each suspension set up by the cross member. on the rear lower arms, you will never get those bolts out...so drop out the entire crossmemberand unbolt the struts from the lower half (easier to put them in separate) 2 bolts on each side of the crossmembers, then the struts. Disconnect the e-brake cables from the car (3 or 4 clips right under the e-brake handle) and the single rear brake line going to the car (yes you will lose all your fluid...) then unbolt the cables on their way back...

While this is all out change out your struts, then reverse of removal...bolt the cross member in place, then hook everything up. Using the GL proportioning valve makes it a bit more rear biased than the GT, so it's easier to lock them up. Make it a bit better for SCCA events I guess, though. The e-brake calbes will clip onto the GL, same hook ups on both models. Takes 2 hours tops to swap them over.

Bleed the brakes and you're good to go.

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Another Note: If you're GL has an ATX, then I'm not sure you'd be able to do this swap. Your trasmission cooler mounts where the I/C would go, and no 1st gen Probe GT's came with ATXs. I'm not sure if someone has found a way to relocate the cooler or not, even if they did, I don't believe an ATX is a good way to go with a turboed engine. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Enjoy!

[ricks89gl]

Now if you wanted to use your GL's transmission instead of the GT's, you would need to do the following.

Take the Flywheel, Clutch, and Starter from the F2 block and put them on the GT block, then mate the tranny/block together. If you use the GL's MTX, you do NOT need to change the drive shafts, or hubs to the GT's. But before deciding which MTX to use, look at the following stats...

GL MTX Top Speed (rated at max 150flbs)
1st 3.307 32
2nd 1.833 57
3rd 1.233 85
4th 0.914 115
5th 0.717 147
Final 4.105
Reverse 3.166

GT MTX Top Speed (rated at max 350flbs)
1st 3.250 33
2nd 1.772 61
3rd 1.194 90
4th 0.926 116
5th 0.711 151
Final 4.105
Reverse 3.461

The top speed is what the tranny is capable of regardless of the engine capabilities like redline and the like, also the numbers are approximated.

[ricks89gl]

Yea. It's doable. But you better rebuild, and get some forged internals. Where? Don't know yet, still looking.

Well here's some information to go by.

The GL pistons are rated for 8.6:1 CR
The GT pistons are rated for 7.8:1 CR

Stock GT 145hp 190ftlbs
Stock GL 110hp 130ftlbs
Stock GL (with turbo) 174hp 240ftlbs (7 psi of boost)

Due to the fact that a stock GL block has 8.6:1 CR, the pressures within a boosted GL engine will be greater and it will achieve more power with less boost. But there are reliability issues to think about when doing this type of thing.

Other than the compresion what else is different from the F2T vs the F2? Pistons! The F2T pistons are hyperteutectic (however that is spelled) and the F2 pistons are cast iron(?). According to PerformanceProbe.com, the connecting rods in both engines are made of cast iron, as well as the crankshaft. The bore/stroke are the same at (3.39 x 3.70). The engine weights are different by 42 lbs., with the F2T at ~500 lbs. Now the head, the camshafts are the same, but the exhaust valuves on an F2T head have a heat-
treated coating to cope with the engine heats.

Altho, while upping the effective compression ratio, you don't add anymore air. With the Higher CR, all you do is increase pressures in the cylinder. Since you aren't adding anymore oxygen, you don't NEED more fuel. Except maybe to keep temps down in the cylinder. However, stock tuning should run rich enough that you would be OK with the upped effective compression ratio. This is considering you use the GT fuel setup.

This parts list was taken from a thread by Natro.

1.Exhaust manifold gasket
2.Exhaust manifold (including EGR connection nut)
3.IHI Turbo
4.IHI Turbo to down pipe connector
5.Down pipe
6.Intercooler
7.Intercooler piping and intake piping
8.Bypass valve with bypass valve tube connector
9.Exhaust manifold to turbo gasket
10.Turbo down pipe connector to down pipe gasket
11.O2 sensor
12.GT fuel injectors

Some other parts needed are
1.Vacuum hose 20 ft (preferably silicone)
2.Turbo oil in fitting (Home depot, brass)
3.Oil tap fitting for block (fits into oil pressure sensor hole, Home depot, brass fittings)
4.Plastic T's for coolant taps and clamps for every hose
5.Oil hoses, in and out. (6 bar pressure resistance)
6. Coolant hoses in and out (pressure resistant)
8. Brass oil pan tap (for turbo oil return)

Enjoy!

[1hookedupglnCT]

this needs to be a sticky
good job matt and rick

[BrandoToao]

One Problem! The GT *DID* come with an ATX. I have one in my first GT. Yes, there is a cooler, it fits right beside the intercooler and the pipes to it run over the intercooler.

[attack_mx6]

you can buy a ton of the parts off me if you need anything.

[anomaly]

Nice thread!

You even used a paragraph or two that I authored! (btw, that's copywrite infringement and I expect restitution <j/k, Im making fun of RIAA!>)

This will be very helpful for those who have questions regarding the GL to GT swap or the GL-T mod. In fact, I was hoping that you (or someone) would be good enough to post the necessary parts required for the GL-T mod so that people will know exactly what is needed and can either begin collecting parts or sae up for a donor car.

Thanks for making this thread, Rick! It helps a lot to have the information in one place and not scattered about.

[ricks89gl]

This so called first gen GT with the ATX, did any other ones come with it? I was told they didn't. Is it possible someone put that in there out of an LX or GL?

Or, was it NONE of the 89 GT's came with ATX's but 90-92's did?

[89pgttR]

Now I have a question for you guys. I have a 89 Gt, I also have an 89 gl at least I thinks its a gl, did they have another model, well anyway I dont have the non turbo car yet but its already paid for I just have to go get it. now for my question. can I take pretty much just the block out of the gl and drop it in to my gt with all the gt components and get that to work fine. it sounds easier to do that then to switch all my gt stuff to my gl. Will the f2t head go on the f2? because the head gaskets are different arent they?

[attack_mx6]

Originally posted by ricks89gl
This so called first gen GT with the ATX, did any other ones come with it? I was told they didn't. Is it possible someone put that in there out of an LX or GL?

Or, was it NONE of the 89 GT's came with ATX's but 90-92's did?

the 89 was the only year of MTX only Gt.
the 90 to 92 has the option of a ATX.

[ricks89gl]

Think so, but while you have your F2 block out, you might want to get it rebuilt with forged internals. Or if you want to be that guy to tell us how much the F2 can take, be my guest.

Only thing that I can think of that might not fit properly is the turbo's oil line.... but you might be able to screw the oil filter housing off the block and put it onto the other?

[EVERY DETAIL]

the 89GT never came with an ATX, only 90-92GT's

www.performanceprobe.com for more info

[DarkAngelDiablo]

i think this should be a sticky as well. lots of strait forwad information. but one question. im doin the GL-T mod, and i was wonderin where a good place is to tap oil and coolant lines on the F2 block?

[ricks89gl]

Give me a second, gonna go outside and see how you would be able to do the oil lines on an F2 block since my F2T is out of the car... brb...

[ricks89gl]

Ok, just took a look at my block, and all there are 2 lines from the turbo which go into the block, and one that goes right where the oil filter is... 3 lines total. I'm no expert, I'm just going by what I see.

Since the blocks are made the same, the F2 block should have these spots for the lines, just plugged, is it possible to unplug them?

[charles]

Originally posted by DarkAngelDiablo
i think this should be a sticky as well. lots of strait forwad information. but one question. im doin the GL-T mod, and i was wonderin where a good place is to tap oil and coolant lines on the F2 block?

for the coolant lines you can just tap into the coolant line to the waterpump like the GT does since the pipe runs directly behind trhe turbo. What might be better is just get the pipe from a gt motor and use it on your setup. Also if you want to get a GT block i have one in my basement that has not been touched in about 3 years and it has ALL NEW PARTS. The only problem with it is i burned 1 or two pistons(can't remember, been so long now)

New crank
new pistons
new water pump
new oil pump
Bored .20 over
new rear main seal
i think i had the flywheel lightened but i am not sure though.
new bearings
Ported head( but it is not on the motor though)


Also you might want to know on your set up is, is the oil cooler that is on the non gt motor the same as the one on the GT? Does the non gt have a knock sensor? Does the non gt have the same oil sending unit?

Also on some of the gt's they have a "OIL LOW" light and some didn't just like some of the mx6's and the 626's didn't. Not to find out if it does or doesn't all you have to do is look on the oil pan and see if there is a sensor on the bottom of it. if it does then you have a low oil sensor. I am not sure if it is going to work if you CAR is not equipt with the light though.

One of the sensors on the fire wall is for the boost gauge which is called the PRESSURE SENSOR. Well since the non gts didn't come with a boost gauge then that sensor you won't need off the fire wall. That is located to the right of the brake drum. ALso just to let you know the wire harness from the 89 gt and the harness for the 90-92 are different so choose the right ECU.

[DarkAngelDiablo]

thanks for the info. i am getting an 89 GT ECU, i didnt forget about the differences. also im gettin the GT's guages so im gonna need the presure sensor. just remember, in my sig i said its a winter project, so i have a good amount of time to asve up and get a few extra things i may end up needing.

[BrandoToao]

If anyone needs any GT parts I have a parts car with many parts on it... I'd be willing to get rid of the whole package... and cheaply, it is in MI.

[89pgttR]

Originally posted by BrandoToao
If anyone needs any GT parts I have a parts car with many parts on it... I'd be willing to get rid of the whole package... and cheaply, it is in MI.

me too but mines in washington

[ricks89gl]

Ok, let's say I really want to go with the F2 block....

Used all F2T block internals except for the piston heads... Get those specially made (forged). Or, to save time, instead of taking the stuff out of an F2T to put in the F2, I just get higher CR piston heads for the F2T putting me at 8.6-1 CR.

What do I have to worrry about blowing?

I'd probably get a copper headgasket at least

[ricks89gl]

Long time since I've seen this.

[FLAPOC-Pres]

Yep, just thought i would mention 89 Gt's had a slightly different gear ratios, then 90-92 Gt mtx's, but the final gear ratio does eventually come out the same.

[whiteknightgl22]

Originally Posted by BrandoToao

If anyone needs any GT parts I have a parts car with many parts on it... I'd be willing to get rid of the whole package... and cheaply, it is in MI.

ho9w much whats missing doing a 92 PGL-t want basically all the car til Id junk it

[RetardedGenius]

Originally Posted by DarkAngelDiablo

i think this should be a sticky as well. lots of strait forwad information. but one question. im doin the GL-T mod, and i was wonderin where a good place is to tap oil and coolant lines on the F2 block?

For the oil, I tee'd my oil in line off the oil pressure sensor in the back of the engine near the oil filter and then ran the oil out line into the top of the oil pan.
For the coolant, I ran both of mine from the bottom of the thermostat housing, but I think most people use the coolant lines under & beside the throttle body.
There are a wide variety of ways to do either though so it can be done any way you like.
By the way, did you end up going through with the GL Turbo winter project?

[ricks89gl]

WhiteNight, check my sig, I may have MANY of the parts you need to do it. Anything you don't see, just ask, the list isn't done.