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  ProbeTalk.com Forums > Tech Section > Racing/Suspension

Racing/Suspension Drag Racing, AutoX, Road Racing and Suspension.

 
November 24th, 2015, 11:00 AM   #701
94PGT
Turbo Member
 
: Feb 2000
: Oklahoma
: 40
: 1,639
:
front evo 8 brembos are a bolt on. dremel the upper hole for the bracket out 1mm bolt it all on . 4 pot big brakes that bolt on.

http://www.mpsowners.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=170970
The Mazda parts require ZERO grinding etc to make the parts fit except for bending the lip on the rear dust shields out a little to clearance the much larger rotors.
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November 24th, 2015, 11:27 AM   #702
xrp861
Supercharged Member
 
: Jul 2004
: DeTRoiT
: 35
: 1,035
dont matter 1mm aint sheit and its still bolt on. just keeping big brake info with big brake info is all. you can still install your oem parts if need be.
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94 PGT
[96 PGT FuLL OBD2 WiRe HaRNeSS] ]KL31 SHoRT BLoCK & CaMS] [KL1C MaF SWap] [CuRVe NeCK MaNiFoLD] [KL68 TB] [Hei & MSD BLaSTeR 2] [Cai] [SS HeaDeRS] [STS] [R&R PoLY F&R MouNT & SHiFTeR iNSeRTS] [STaGe 2 CLuTCH] [FiDaNZa FLYWHeeL] [eGR DeLeTe] [FuLL a/C DeLeTe] [CoiLoVeRS] [RX8 WHeeLS oN 225/45/18]
 
November 24th, 2015, 11:52 AM   #703
RacerXR
Jr. Member
 
: Mar 2014
: Dallas, Tx
: 110
:
I don't understand why people keep trying to force fit hardware from Mitsubishis, etc. when there is a much simpler solution. Mazdaspeed6 front calipers and rotors, Mazdaspeed protégé rear calipers and Mazda6 rear rotors. That gives you 12.2" up front and 11" rear. ALL BOLT ON. RETAINS PARKING BRAKE. How do I know this? Because this setup has been on my car for over a year without issue. You will need a minimum 18" rim to clear the fronts.
I am running 17" Konig Zero-Ins over my Mazdaspeed6 front rotors/calipers. They have plenty of clearance.

I do agree that there is no reason to fab or re-drill Mitsu or Honda brackets to get good braking. To be honest, the Speed6 rotors up front on my stripped 626 are a little too much braking. However, they modulate well so I have no plans to change them.

You need to be pay attention to the surface area of the pistons in the calipers in relation to the surface area of the piston in the master cylinder. As the ratio gets more extreme in either direction, it affects the brake pedal action and feel. The factory master cylinder works pretty well with Speed6 calipers up front and the '98+ 626 calipers in the rear (same as the 93-97 Probe rears with a longer bracket for the bigger rotors).

However, the setup ends up with a little too much initial bite on the front end. To help with this, I run a set a pads on the front with a lower friction rating than the set of pads I run on the rear. In my case, I run Hawk DTC-60's up front and Hawk HP+'s in the rear. This is on a track only car, so I don't mind the squeaky nature of the pads and the poor cold friction. If you wanted to do something similar on a street driven car, you could try Hawk HPS up front with Hawk HP+s in the rear. The rears will probably squeak a little. But, it should be minimal.
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'94 Ford Probe SE

 
April 8th, 2016, 03:09 AM   #704
KLZE Porsche
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: Feb 2004
: Alabama
: 58
: 5,898
Problems with Mazdaspeed 6 front calipers/rotors

Has anyone else ran into problems with the 2006 Speed 6 rotors hitting the Spped 6 bracket on the inside? I got my set yesterday and was test fitting and found the interference problem. It all appears to fit except for the interference problem. It is almost like the caliper bracket would need to shift inward 1/8" or so. I can machine if needed -but I thought it was supposed to be a direct bolt-on.
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April 8th, 2016, 03:14 AM   #705
stoker100
Donating Member
 
 
: Oct 2003
: Australia
: 37
: 5,850
which bracket? mine was a direct bolt on.
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April 8th, 2016, 04:37 AM   #706
KLZE Porsche
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: Feb 2004
: Alabama
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which bracket? mine was a direct bolt on.
Both items (complete calipers/rotors) are supposed to be 2006 Speed 6 items. I am wondering if either one sent the wrong year -or if the rotors are made incorrectly. The calipers appear to be extremely good quality rebuilds from Cardone. It is my first time buying from them and I am highly impressed with the quality of the rebuild. They look like brand new calipers.

I am concerned that the problem child is the rotors which are made custom (supposedly) by Hydrabrake in Canada. They were supposed to be black chromium -but they are more of a bronze chromium and they do not look to be as high of a quality as the Cardone calipers.

My rear 626 black chromium rotors are from a different manufacturer and are very high quality -and are black as advertised. I had no problem with fitment on those.

I don't know where to go from here unless someone else has had problems with fitment. When I get home tonight I will try to post up some high def photos -and perhaps someone might be able to spot the problem.

Here is one of the calipers I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172067974532...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and here are the rotors:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252299836875...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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April 8th, 2016, 10:34 PM   #707
SBPGT
Five Star Member
 
 
: Feb 2000
: Tempe, AZ
: 49
: 3,642
2006-2009|MAZDA|6:: ALL ENGINES ARE SUPPORTED

I assume they don't know that there are differences between the models. The MS6 rotors are different from the other models on the 6. They probably sold you the smaller rotors for the non-MS6 cars.

Measure?
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2002 Mazda 626 ES



 
April 8th, 2016, 11:42 PM   #708
RacerXR
Jr. Member
 
: Mar 2014
: Dallas, Tx
: 110
Those brackets and calipers are a direct bolt on. I highly suspect those no name "black chromium" coated rotors that fit all Mazda 6's are your problem.

Coated rotors are a scam. Drilled rotors will crack. Get a good set of Centric High Carbon or Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors.
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'93 Mazda 626
'94 Ford Probe SE
 
April 9th, 2016, 08:35 AM   #709
KLZE Porsche
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: Feb 2004
: Alabama
: 58
: 5,898
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...They probably sold you the smaller rotors for the non-MS6 cars.

Measure?
Yes -that was going to be my first move this morning. I was also suspecting they sent me standard MS6 (non-speed) rotors.

So to all those that buy this combination -test fit first before doing anything else. I was going to paint the rotors black for rust protection -and it is a good thing I didn't.

P.S. Done anything with your cams yet? I am going to start building the engine for the Black Probe this weekend with the Colt Cams.

P.S. P.S. I measured the discs and they are 11.8" meaning that they are NOT MazdaSpeed 6 rotors as they were advertised.
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April 9th, 2016, 01:03 PM   #710
SBPGT
Five Star Member
 
 
: Feb 2000
: Tempe, AZ
: 49
: 3,642
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P.S. Done anything with your cams yet? I am going to start building the engine for the Black Probe this weekend with the Colt Cams.
Not yet. I need to get a wheel off because the tread is pealing off. I lost the socket for the wheel lock and have to use a emergency lug remover. Then I need to get the car to emissions and registered for two years. Then the cams, turbo, MS3x, etc... go on.


P.S. I just passed emission test! (.11 out 1.00HC , 1.80 out of 12.00 CO and .84 out 0f 2.50 NOX) Been out driving around for the past 45 min. enjoying my car that I haven't driven for 6 months...
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STEVE B



2002 Mazda 626 ES




 
April 12th, 2016, 11:30 AM   #711
MonoxideChild
POC Mod
 
 
: Jul 2002
: Rockford, IL.
: 39
: 17,228
Had no issue with my MS6 setup. Fit up perfectly.
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September 18th, 2016, 01:29 PM   #712
SBPGT
Five Star Member
 
 
: Feb 2000
: Tempe, AZ
: 49
: 3,642
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hi mike!

the dual piston front caliper setup is the ONLY way to go, if you are going to be asking for extreme performance from your car (such as extended road race, or in your case, turbocharged extreme power car). the dual pistons give a great 'feel' when squeezing the pedal, and keep even pressure across the large front pad, so as to avoid 'banana-ing' of the pad under extreme circumstances. i designed my racing bbk around the millenia dual piston calipers for just those reasons; no way i was going to go with a single piston caliper ever again.

on to your situation -- i don't have any direct experience with the fusion (or whatever they exactly are, dual piston calipers), but you need to make CAREFUL measurements to make sure that when the caliper is bolted up to the knuckle, that it is centered exactly over the rotor (so that you can fit full thickness pads on both sides without one side being too narrow, etc). also, the outer edge of the top of the pad must line up pretty much exactly with the top of whatever rotor you have picked to use; you don't want it hanging over or under the rotor edge (this will create problems for sure). you don't need to be as concerned with where the bottom edge of the pad ends up, as long as it does not interfere with the rotor 'hat'. i think that milling 1/16" off the bracket should not cause any problems with strength of your system, but be sure that when you chuck up the caliper bracket in the mill, that you get it totally 'square' and not milled at an angle! i'd also recommend trying to utilize the absolute thickest rotor that you can manage to fit inside those calipers; a thicker rotor will absorb and release more heat than a thinner one, and will resist fading much better. it will also resist cracking during race situations much better (when my road race probe had stock oem brake calipers and rotors on it, i'd have to replace the front rotors (and race pads) every weekend; after i upgraded to my bbk, rotors are now lasting about 20+ race weekends, and pads are lasting 7-8 weekends. all heat control! the rotor my bbk uses is the Mitsu 3000 GT VR4 TT (later models, 1995+) front rotor; it is about 12.2" in dia, and is 1.2" thick. it was the absolute biggest, baddest rotor that i could fit under the stock oem 16" wheels, when using the millenia S dual piston front caliper. instead of trying to modify the knuckle or caliper brackets, as you are trying to do, i instead manufacture a pair of CNC S/S adapter brackets and hardware to make it a bolt-on affair. you might want to consider going this route, too, for simplicity of your system? if you are handy with a mill and lathe, and you have some time to kill, you might be able to make a set of sturdy brackets up for yourself....

good luck with your front bbk!

sincerely,
todd
ReidSpeed

PS nothing outbrakes me in my class with my ReidSpeed BBK system; it is very comforting to know that i can come down into the braking zone and outwait everyone!

Just reading through this thread again, doing some research on BBK, and I found this on another site...which pertains to this thread Mazda 6 brakes and the post above...


Pads on the right are Hawk HP+ track pads after 2hrs on track at VIR (they started new). Pads on the left are new Hawk HP+ track pads I installed before heading to CMP.

Brake pads

After 3.5hrs on track at CMP (the place is known to be brutal on brakes), here's how my calipers looked.

Calipers

They were smoking as I entered the pits. The rubber seals around the pistons, just about gone. Caliper discolored from the heat.

Here are the pads:

Banana pads 1

Banana pads 2

The single piston design focused all the clamping force on one point and as the friction material wore at that point combined with the very high temperatures, the piston was able to bend the backing plate.

Performance wise - the brakes worked well. The track pads have a stable Cf so I saw no fade. My brake fluid was fresh and has a boiling point over 500deg. The only thing I noticed driving the car, was the pedal getting lower as the friction material wore away.
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STEVE B



2002 Mazda 626 ES



 
September 18th, 2016, 08:06 PM   #713
KLZE Porsche
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: Feb 2004
: Alabama
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Holy crap Batman! That is some serious braking.
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