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HLA, what are they, why do they tick, how to clean them, dissassemly/reassembly......

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  • #16
    why not just have them squatted. i would think pulling them apart could do some damage to them. every mechanic i have talked to said that pulling them apart is a big no no. and that squatting them will do the same thing.



    beside what i just said, great in-depth post!!
    2006 Evolution IX - Best ET: 8.92 // Best MPH: 166.85

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    • #17
      What is squatting? I've never really heard of it. Is that just compressing the HLA's?
      Marc M.
      Black '95 PGT with mods 177.4 whp/159.6 wtq (probably way less now as the car has been partially de-modded)
      2000 BMW M-Roadster

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Omaha95PGT
        What is squatting? I've never really heard of it. Is that just compressing the HLA's?
        yes you let all the HLA's soak over night in a bucket of cleaner. then like you said they get individually compressed a few times each (4-5 times each) . this completely cleans out the inside of the HLA's w/o having to take them apart. All the gunk that is on the inside of them squirts out of the hole. and when no more qunk comes out. that means they are cleaned. Most shops will do it for very cheap. Or you can attempt it your self
        2006 Evolution IX - Best ET: 8.92 // Best MPH: 166.85

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        • #19
          Yes, this thread would be useful in the 2.0l section as well. My car does this horribly bad. I'm going to try a kero flush when it warms up outside.
          Chris Taylor

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          • #20
            "Do not put any oil in the HLA while it is apart, let them soak in a can of oil overnight and fully compress them the next day before installation. "


            That part confuses me... don't put oil in them, then you say soak them in oil?

            So....now I wonder which is better, squatting or disassembly.

            Great post.

            Nick
            1993 PGT KLZE Turbo - Sold (12.9 @ 118mph)
            1995 240SX RB20DET swap - Sold (330whp)
            2000 Audi S4 TT - Sold (too heavy)
            1995 BMW M3 - Custom made turbo kit (420whp/398wtq) Sold to pay for school
            2003 VW GTI 20th Anniversary Edition - Chipped, exhaust, etc...

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            • #21
              I think he means Disassemble --> Assemble --> Soak in oil --> Compress --> Install.

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              • #22


                Yes, don't put any oil in the parts of the HLA's, but rather reassemble the HLA's and then let the whole HLA soak in oil.

                I say this because of the following:

                If someone fills the internals of the HLA with oil and trys to compress them they cannot. Unless they use a needle/pin to push the pressure releif ball down and releive the internal pressure that is created when they are being compressed. If they are not compressed, and reinstalled, the valves will be pushed open and the engine will never start because of the lack of compression.

                Did that clear up the confusion?



                ~Silver
                ~Aaron~
                1993 Silver PGT MTX ~~R.I.P~5/7/14

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                • #23
                  YEs,
                  Except, is there a need to disassemble other than to see if the springs are ok?

                  Nick
                  1993 PGT KLZE Turbo - Sold (12.9 @ 118mph)
                  1995 240SX RB20DET swap - Sold (330whp)
                  2000 Audi S4 TT - Sold (too heavy)
                  1995 BMW M3 - Custom made turbo kit (420whp/398wtq) Sold to pay for school
                  2003 VW GTI 20th Anniversary Edition - Chipped, exhaust, etc...

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                  • #24
                    Either that or squat it.

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                    • #25
                      Re: HLAs and the oil

                      Originally posted by SteveS
                      One thing (no guarantees, and most of you are probably doing this anyway) is to move to a thinner oil, an SAE 5W or 10W-30. This allows the oil to be pumped faster to the hydraulic lifters and develop the pressure needed to adjust the lifters.

                      Another is to clean the lifters, see earlier in this thread for the excellent instructions from Silver-Bullit. You may be able to clean out some of the sludge in the oilways/lifters by using a highly dispersant or detergent engine oil. Oils are NOT all the same, some manufacturers skimp on the additives (I think Mobil 1 was like this when it was first formulated, Mobil seemed to think that using a synthetic base oil meant they didn't need to include as much additive). Use a high dispersant engine oil like Texaco Havoline Formula 3, make sure the oil you are using is the highest API classification (API SJ or SL if available), or use a diesel engine oil as a flush for about 500 km/miles (diesel engine oils have high levels of detergent) - something like Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40.
                      Thank you VERY much for pointing this out. It's long-since been a debate.

                      The newly reformulated Mobil 1 Trisynthetic, of any weight, will not do a thing to prevent hla tick. In fact, it exacerbates it. The Havoline you mentioned is a FANTASTIC choice. I'm planning another kerosene flush (did one a year/15k miles ago) and will ONLY be running 5w-30 and will NEVER put Mobil 1 back in my car. It's just not a good formula for this engine.

                      Good info. What a great sticky thread.

                      ~Kimberly
                      Miss Kimberly René

                      appropriately inappropriate

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                      • #26
                        Re: Re: HLAs and the oil

                        Originally posted by Not_His
                        The newly reformulated Mobil 1 Trisynthetic, of any weight, will not do a thing to prevent hla tick. In fact, it exacerbates it. The Havoline you mentioned is a FANTASTIC choice. I'm planning another kerosene flush (did one a year/15k miles ago) and will ONLY be running 5w-30 and will NEVER put Mobil 1 back in my car. It's just not a good formula for this engine.
                        What's wrong with M1? Is this due to the reformulation of the Tri-Synth? I haven't seen any info about any drop in PAO content in the new M1, but have heard rumors they were putting more class III HC's in it since they lost the lawsuit with Castrol.

                        Care to share more data on why M1 Tri-Synth doesn't help prevent HLA ticking and how it makes it worse?
                        95 PGT, 91 STS/DSP, 15.03 @ 93.4
                        08 WRB Subaru WRX STi (new addition to the family)
                        PGT Page
                        MS Region SCCA

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                        • #27
                          http://www.probetalk.com/forums/show...l+reformulated

                          There you go, Brian.

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                          • #28
                            Although Havoline Formula 3 is a high quality conventional oil, it just isn't as good as a synthetic at a low or high temperature. M1 5w-30's pour point is -51F (the original was -65F, though); but HF3 5w-30 pour point is -40F. (If you want the -65F pour point, you can go with the 0w-xx M1.)

                            I just don't see any conclusive data that says the reformulated M1 5w-30 with SuperSyn will make the HLA noise worse compared to something like Havoline Formula 3.

                            The only benefit is the price, allowing you to change the oil more often.
                            95 PGT, 91 STS/DSP, 15.03 @ 93.4
                            08 WRB Subaru WRX STi (new addition to the family)
                            PGT Page
                            MS Region SCCA

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                            • #29
                              Synthetic oils are not ALL better

                              Brian,

                              If I made an engine oil with a synthetic base stock but left out or reduced the additive package (which gives the engine oil its performance) then you wouldn't want to use it despite its synthetic nature.

                              A good mineral oil basestock - and especially a group 3 one (which as someone pointed out can now legally be described as a synthetic) - will make an excellent engine oil with the right additive package.

                              When Mobil first introduced Mobil 1 there were suspicions in the oil industry that they'd cut back on the additive content in the oil because they expected the synthetic basestock to reduce the production of oil degradation by-products. however the oil didn't handle the deposits normally produced by an engine as well as some other (mineral based) engine oils and I believe that engines using Mobil 1 did give sludge related problems. I don't know about this latest Mobil 1 trisynthetic (?) though.

                              So Mobil 1 has a lower pour point? Are you starting your car at -40 deg C/F? At the sort of temperatures you will encounter, the Mobil 1 SAE 5W-30 and Texaco Havoline Formula 3 SAE 5W-30 will have almost identical flow properties. The problem that mineral oils experience with pour point is the sudden production of wax crystals, and the viscosity takes a sudden kick towards the high/solid side as temperature drops (ie. the fluid becomes thixotropic).
                              Ex owner of Dark Blue PGT J-spec, manufactured 95, 80,000 km (50,000 miles)

                              "Once I was conceited, but now I'm perfect"

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Silver_Bullit

                                However, IMO the tick isn't caused by the springs failing, it is caused by the starvation of oil.

                                MUST agree with you there, in the winter, i would get major HLA tap BUT if i shut the car off, wait a fw seconds, restart, it will more than 80% of the time, stop the tapping.

                                so oil starvaton is a BIG issue

                                just giving a heads up..

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