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  • I think you might want to do some more research before you run to the machine shop with a handfull of cash.

    Shaving the heads or block meaning removing so much of the top surface. Which inturn raises the compression ratio. Too much can throw off cam timing or the valves could get too close and hit the pistons.

    Find out if this shop has and experience with K series or import style engines. Make sure your set realistic goals that go along with your budget. Good luck, let us know how it all turns out.
    Mike Evans
    92 MX-3 GS MTX 2.5L
    93 MX-3 GS SE MTX 1.8L

    KL-DE/ZE, ZE ECU, KLZE pistons, Port/Polished DE heads, Stiffer Valve Springs, '96 Millenia Intake Manifold, 67mm TB, Clutchmasters Stage III, Fidanza Flywheel, and Walbro FP.

    Comment


    • Finally, the engine is apart.


      I am sure the piston need to be changed because of the dent.
      Here is what I want to do :

      1- Bring the head and the block to the machine shop so they can check them out

      2- From then, I will order the standard ZE pistons (brand new or lightly used) and the complete engine kit from Flatlander
      without the pistons (since I am using original ZE pistons). This kit should include everything needed (rings, gasket, bearings...)

      3- With my quote, I will go back to see the machine shop with my new pistons and rebuild kit to ask them to do the job needed and to reinstall the pistons in the block as well.

      4- I will clean all the parts seperatly, and change the valve spring for stiffer ones. BTW are the valves easy to take out?

      and to reinstall? cause I left them all in order in each heads for now. Is a valve job from the machine shop REALLY necessary? or I can just clean them myself and reinstall the new springs & valves?

      5- Put all the parts back together with the new gaskets & bearings, new water pump, headers, oil pump, Unorthodox Pulley, tensioner arm & all the belts. To torque wrench I got all the mazda factory manual (factory workshop manuals & KL engines book) so I have all the explainations in there to help me out.

      6- Ready for the swap in the car at spring

      What do you guys think of this project? anything I forgot to mention? also since I might not need to bore the cylinder it
      will cost me much less to complete this project, which is great. Where can I get stiffer valves springs and valve retainers?
      thats the only thing I am missing. I will get the standard size pistons from corksport if I dont need a bore. If yes then I will get custom Jepistons.com pistons. For the cams I contacted Mike Seli already and he will grind me my original cams at
      0.352"lift, 202 deg@ 0.050" (intake)
      0.353"lift, 209 deg@ 0.050"(exhaust)
      that should give me around an extra 10 HP + all the other parts, new rebuild, new pistons, rings, pulley, fidanza flywheel,headers, 2.5" exaust line... do you think I can reach the 230 HP at the wheels? Around how much power should I expect?

      The engine will be like brand new, and will be stronger and more reliable than buying a used one with 80 000 km... And the total cost should be around 2000$CDN (for the engine only without calculating the external components like pulley, flywheel...) so I am pretty happy about it. (Engine rebuild kit & Ze pistons & Machine Shop Labour & Blown engine & Mike cams grind & stiffer valves springs & retainers...)

      I will wait for your feedback guys on this one. I took a whole bunch of pics of the damages, and of the engine. I will appreciate any help for this project. thanks alot

      Comment


      • Stiffer valve springs are unneeded. You wont valve float with mikes cams

        Just talk to cyborgzero or the other guy in this thread on if they sourced better retainers for the ze.

        Otherwise there was a bulk buy before so you can contact the person who lead it and ask him to hook you up with the shop that made them for him
        ¡Renewed Vigor!

        Comment


        • Again if you are only gonna do bolt ons....then just purchase another KLZE motor.......or at a minimum fix it from parts in the FS forum...dont go buying new pistons and shit.

          The head damage definately indicates valve damage.....I am willing to bet that you have a bent valve as well.

          Decking the heads is not the same as shaving the heads.....when you deck you remove only a **** hair of material to make sure the head and block is true.....now looking at the damage to the head I am not so sure I would fix it......find a junk yard 95 mazda millenia head and use that or find one in the FS forum.

          That piston is shot but I am sure there are others in the FS forum that have a loose piston you can purchase.

          Your block looks fine and wont need any work.....maybe a fresh scratching but that wont cost any money.

          TARMAC BLACK 2006 EVOLUTION 9 SPECIAL EDITION 430WHP

          JJM CUSTOM TUNE /// ETS FMIC /// HKS TBE EXHAUST /// BBK TURBO /// OHLINS COILOVERS /// FIC 1100 INJECTORS


          www.BOOSTEDFILMS.com

          MY CAR DOMAIN

          Comment


          • ok great, thanks for the info
            I also checked the valve where the bolts was (on the head part) and the valve is fine, not bent or anything.

            It looks like the bolt only knocked between the head part and the piston. Then he probably stopped the engine right away and took the engine out...

            Like I said I would rather rebuild the engine completly since its gonan be like brand new and I can do a few upgrade such as stiffer valves springs, grinded cams...

            I contacted Interpreps and they can sell me Valve spring sets for $174.00 + shipping. They are suppose to be stiffer than the original springs. I would use that with Mike Seli regrinded cams. Interpreps told me that they use standard upper retainers.

            Would it be fine to use these valves springs, with brand new OEM valve retainers and Mike cams ?

            Also I was wondering, can I use a set of KL03 cams or K08 cams to use as core for the grind by Mike and would it fit perfectly in my ZE (same cam gears?)

            For the pistons you think its not worth it to use : the original ZE pistons brand new from corksport at $270.00 US? I was scared that used piston might not work perfectly in my cylinder. What do you think? Is it ok to use all brand new rings after too?

            I could have order than 270$ + the engine rebnuild kit 450$ = And I would have had everything I need to rebuild this beast.

            I will only need the valves springs & retainers. For the valve I saw on your site that you use brand new ferrea valves. Does it worth it for me you think?

            As for the damaged head? you really think there is no way to fix it? Around how much would a used head go for? and is it exactly the same head than the millenia that you mentionned?

            let me know
            thanks

            Comment


            • I still think you should just get another KLZE.

              But....

              Piston tolerances are gonna be dead on the nuts so you can use any factory KLZE piston....just purchase one from the F/S forum and save a few hundred dollars.

              If replacing rings....go with a set of TOTAL SEAL rings.....use the search function to find out more info.

              I purchased ferrea valve because I melted a stock valve with nitrous.....I believed that I had damaged all the exhaust valves so I replaced them with ferrea valves. It may have been a waste of money because stock valves are very high quality. If doing it all over again, would only get new valves if I went with oversized valves which I wish I would have done in the first place.

              Cams....KL03 cams will work just fine and you can probably sell you KLZE cams at a good price in the FS forum. Do not grind your KLZE cams. Contact SNOWSEEKER via PM and he can hook you up with some cams.

              The damaged head may be fixable but it will cost as much as a salvaged KL31 head from a yard or PT member.

              TARMAC BLACK 2006 EVOLUTION 9 SPECIAL EDITION 430WHP

              JJM CUSTOM TUNE /// ETS FMIC /// HKS TBE EXHAUST /// BBK TURBO /// OHLINS COILOVERS /// FIC 1100 INJECTORS


              www.BOOSTEDFILMS.com

              MY CAR DOMAIN

              Comment


              • ok cool
                I found a guy which is suppose to sell me a used piston in good shape.

                I am gonna order the flatlander kit standard size (without the pistons) and use my old ones.

                There is already rings in the kit, would it really worth it to buy Total seals rings kit? I dont want to put a turbo or nitro on that later...

                Also should I keep the same valves springs or I should upgrade them? I will be running Mike cams (grind)...

                As for the retainers, I am trying hard to find better ones than oem. I heard the stock ones can be a real problems with the ZE... when you rev high...

                thanks

                Comment


                • Stock rings are plenty good but if going custom pistons then I would look at total seal.

                  Stock springs are fine .....check with PAECO for titanium retainers if you decide they are needed.

                  I have only heard of two people having problems with retainers....2 out of thousands doesn't really indicate a problem with the stock retainers.

                  I think you are off to a good start.

                  TARMAC BLACK 2006 EVOLUTION 9 SPECIAL EDITION 430WHP

                  JJM CUSTOM TUNE /// ETS FMIC /// HKS TBE EXHAUST /// BBK TURBO /// OHLINS COILOVERS /// FIC 1100 INJECTORS


                  www.BOOSTEDFILMS.com

                  MY CAR DOMAIN

                  Comment


                  • Jeff, I brought the head to show the damage to my cusin mechanic teacher. They used to work on many ford probe engine (basically the same). He told us that the head isnt a problem at all. Because its not a machined surface (like cylinder / pistons) its free with nothing rubbing directly on it that it will not be a problem. He suggested me to grind the scuff with sandpaper then polish it a little. Even if there is a little dent (hole) left its fine. I just have to smooth it out he said.

                    I was REALLY happy to hear that!
                    So basically all I have to do now is to bring the block to the machine shop so they can polish it and prepare it for the new set of rings. I will order my engine kit "standard size" right after that just to make 100% sure the cylinder are not used in oval or anything. But by looking at it like that, everything looks great.

                    Then we will start to rebuild that beast

                    Comment


                    • I agree you can use that head.....But I wouldn't and again I would double check those valves because if the bolt did that damage to head you can bet that it bounced off a valve and it doesn't take much to compromise compression.

                      Just for laughs see how much a replacement head would cost. It might be cheap. I dont think its worth gambling on the rebuild.

                      TARMAC BLACK 2006 EVOLUTION 9 SPECIAL EDITION 430WHP

                      JJM CUSTOM TUNE /// ETS FMIC /// HKS TBE EXHAUST /// BBK TURBO /// OHLINS COILOVERS /// FIC 1100 INJECTORS


                      www.BOOSTEDFILMS.com

                      MY CAR DOMAIN

                      Comment


                      • I checked, I couldnt find one under 200$US

                        It will be cheaper to smooth the surface with a sandpaper then polish it with my dremel contour sander. Then the head should be fine. Even if there a little bump going in, they told me it will be fine. I just have to smooth it.

                        I really dont think that the valves has been toutched because they dont show at all any sign of damage,no scuff, no bend or anything. So I think that should be fine.

                        I will use my old valves and springs. Will only clean everything well and reinstall them.

                        I wanted to ask you too, is it a pain to remove & reinstall the valves? Do I need any special tools? Please let me know, because we will do that soon. And starting preparing each parts.

                        All i know is I have to number them all, and they have to go exactly at the same place since I am reinstalling the used parts.

                        thanks

                        Comment


                        • wow i finally read this thing from start to finish.. and my head hurts... I am only doing some minor stuff to my ZE when I swap it from the donor car into mine... But this is great to chew on...
                          Keep this post alive... maybe in a year some more folks can come in and get out all the reliable data and compile it into one dense and potent resource.

                          Trevor
                          Got boost?
                          2003 Mazdaspeed Protege #695
                          Few tweaks but effectively stock. Going over two weeks without repairs... so amazing.

                          Comment


                          • As for removing valves.....I didn't do it.....I took my heads to the shop and said perform a 3 angle valve job, install my ferrea exhaust valves and deck these heads for me. I provided them with new vavles seals that were included with my flatlander kit and when I got it back it was decked, cleaned, and as good as new. I recommend doing a valve job once the heads are off the car.

                            I would still be scared shitless of a bent valve in the bad cylinder. I hear you telling me there is no damage but when I blew a rod in my 95 the piston flew up into the valves and the valves actually shattered the piston....the valves didn't show any signs of damage but they did get bent. So thats the last I'll say about that.

                            It is absolutely critical to keep the head and block surface clean of antifreeze and oil. I used rubbing alchohol to clean both surfaces prior to using the permatex copper spray.

                            You will need to ensure the head bolt holes are free of any liquid and the heads unless dipped for cleaning will have oil that needs to be cleaned up as well.

                            I highly recommend using the permatex or yamabond for sealing the head gaskets. Yamabond is like superglue and is a real pain to apply and even worse to remove but if you dont plan on pulling the heads again that is the hot ticket. Yamabond can be had from any Yamaha dealership.

                            TARMAC BLACK 2006 EVOLUTION 9 SPECIAL EDITION 430WHP

                            JJM CUSTOM TUNE /// ETS FMIC /// HKS TBE EXHAUST /// BBK TURBO /// OHLINS COILOVERS /// FIC 1100 INJECTORS


                            www.BOOSTEDFILMS.com

                            MY CAR DOMAIN

                            Comment


                            • Thanks for the info Jeff. My actual head is a KL31 head. I found a replacement ones for a good price, but I think its a KL03 head. Would that fit? I believe my engine is from a KLZE mx6 JDM since the head are kl31 and the water pump is the same shape than a regular mx6 pump.

                              I just need to make sure if this head will fit or not. I was thinking to keep my valve train and only use the bottom part of it to replace mine which is damaged. The KL03 cams comes with it, and they will be sent to Mike Seli to get grinded...

                              Please let me know what you think, cause I would order them asap. I also found the 2 pistons and rod I needed. I only have one to change, but its always better when you have 2 to choose from. The teacher in mechanic we know also said the original rod may be bent since the revolution of the engine was blocking... so the rod from the damaged piston will be changed as well.

                              thanks

                              Comment


                              • Well....

                                The odds of the rod being bent are slim to none but if you insist on getting a new rod.....you can use any KL03 rod because they are the same as the KLZE rods. I would think you could pick one up for $10 shipped.

                                As for the head....stick with KL31 heads....the 95-98 Mazda millenia had KL31 heads with square ports just like the ZE.

                                You can get cams from the FS forum for cheap...like $60.

                                Personally I would stick with the KL31 KLZE cams....unless you like driving a car that is a pooch below 5k and needs to be pounded to crap at higher RPM before it will getty-up.

                                TARMAC BLACK 2006 EVOLUTION 9 SPECIAL EDITION 430WHP

                                JJM CUSTOM TUNE /// ETS FMIC /// HKS TBE EXHAUST /// BBK TURBO /// OHLINS COILOVERS /// FIC 1100 INJECTORS


                                www.BOOSTEDFILMS.com

                                MY CAR DOMAIN

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