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Need help getting my PGT in tune

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  • Need help getting my PGT in tune

    Hey all:

    Well its my 93 PGT again, my white whale. I've been trying to get it to idle right but just can't seem to do it. Right now, the car only idles in diagnostic mode but backfires like crazy otherwise. When I tried to set ignition timing, I've only been able to get it to 13-14 BTDC, otherwise it starts chugging (however it won't idle outside of diagnostic mode.)

    Here's the low down:

    Checked and fixed/changed:

    1) Vacuum leaks:
    - 90% sure I got them all including cracks in the intake hose (which I fixed using silicone sealer.)
    - Made sure there aren't any leaks at the VRIS, and other hidden vac points (did smoke test to find leaks.)
    2) Changed Spark Plugs, tested and verified wires are good.
    3) New Fuel Filter
    4) Recently replaced TPS and Knock Sensor, tuned TPS but may need to do it again now that I got the idle speed to be at a buttery 650-700 rpms.
    5) Done HEI Mod with external coil, recently resealed MSD power tower on distributor cap with black silicone sealer.
    6) Checked and verified that IAC is good.
    7) Replaced Fuel Injectors from a j/y 2001 Mazda Millenia. They did pass the resistance test.

    Problems:

    1) Can't seem to get ignition timing. Timing more or less lingers at 13-14 BTDC, otherwise, car idles like piss in diag mode. However, if I set it where it idles right in diag mode, it backfires and dies in normal mode.
    2) When cold, it takes a while for the car to start and when it does, the only way to get it to idle is to step on the gas pedal and slowly let off after it warms up a bit.
    3) When the car is running with the gas pedal is pressed down, there's a lot of smoke and it smells like carbon/fuel. When it idles on its own, the smoke isn't as noticeable but the smell is still there.

    Note: Right now there's less than a gallon of gas left so its possible that might be contributing to the issues. I will be filling the tank before I work on it next.

    Does anybody have any ideas what the deal is? Have any of you run into any difficulties setting the ignition timing and have any tips on getting it right?

    Also, is there a certain order when tuning the car as in do you set idle, tune TPS then set ignition timing or do you set ignition timing, tune TPS, then set idle or some other combo?

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Your vacuum could be routed wrong going to the frp. Check here PTAL got some good info. http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701314741
    Last edited by yellowrob; January 22, 2015, 03:28 PM. Reason: good
    Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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    • #3
      Checked the FPRC and its properly hooked up. I guess I can try replacing it with one I know is working since I have a shit ton lying around. Btw, if the purge control solenoids or the EGR solenoid was hooked up wrong, would that cause my symptoms?

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      • #4
        No. Purge and EGR will not cause issues unless there's like a hole in the tank or stuck open EGR valve. And even then, they only come online during cruising conditions.

        What color are the plug insulators? White or a sooty black?
        Last edited by jimtash; January 28, 2015, 09:36 PM.

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        • #5
          My solenoids were hooked up backwards and it DID cause problems starting and ran like crap.
          Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by jimtash View Post
            No. Purge and EGR will not cause issues unless there's like a hole in the tank or stuck open EGR valve. And even then, they only come online during cruising conditions.

            What color are the plug insulators? White or a sooty black?
            The FPRC plugs are clean if that's what you're asking, I made sure to clean the connector on the solenoid and the plug. However the plug itself is broken on one side but it still clicks into place.

            Originally posted by yellowrob;

            My solenoids were hooked up backwards and it DID cause problems starting and ran like crap.
            Did it do this only when the engine was cold or did it run like crap all the time?

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            • #7
              It was taking some hard cranking to get started and then it was running like crap when it would start.

              But what was weird, is that I had it running ( only once or twice, it was time to stop for the day) just fine, when I started it the next day it wasn't running right and I went through everthing, checking plug wires and vacuum and that's when I found these photos above and seen that even though the connections were backwards but the connection that went with that vacuum set was correct. I switch connectors and switched vacuum to rematch that set and was running good.

              I have great vacuum diagrams but could never figure out which way the solenoids point.
              Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by yellowrob View Post
                It was taking some hard cranking to get started and then it was running like crap when it would start.

                But what was weird, is that I had it running ( only once or twice, it was time to stop for the day) just fine, when I started it the next day it wasn't running right and I went through everthing, checking plug wires and vacuum and that's when I found these photos above and seen that even though the connections were backwards but the connection that went with that vacuum set was correct. I switch connectors and switched vacuum to rematch that set and was running good.

                I have great vacuum diagrams but could never figure out which way the solenoids point.
                Ah gotcha. I just now realized that the EGR vent solenoid had three ports while the EGR Vacuum solenoid had only two. I think that would be the way to tell them apart. Btw, I tested both solenoids and they're working, guess I'll just hook em back up and check all the vacuum connections and try again later.

                Btw, has anybody had any issues with j/y injectors? If one or more of them were either stuck open/closed or just plugged with carbon, would that cause these symptoms?

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                • #9
                  http://forums.probetalk.com/showthre...lift+the+rails

                  Originally posted by short4stuff View Post
                  Did you take the injectors out and install new ones into the rails?

                  If so you likely forgot/rolled the bottom injector o-ring on one or more injectors causing fuel to leak directly into the cylinder head.

                  Also make sure you didnt drop any off the rubber washer/seals that go between the fuel rail and intake manifold.

                  to check for the first possible cause, unbolt the injector rails, lift them up slightly and jump the fuel pump and see which injector/injector bore is leaking.
                  Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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                  • #10
                    Ok cool, thanks for the info.

                    Btw, I noticed that one of the guys in that thread (the link) said that he had ordered Millenia injectors from the dealership and they were shorter than his Probe injectors. Has that happened to anyone else? I'm asking because I replaced the injectors in my PGT with 01 Millenia injectors from Pullapart...

                    Thanks again for all the input guys!
                    Last edited by njintau_fsd; January 29, 2015, 03:40 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I thought if you put millenia injectors in, it dumps too much fuel without a ms system. I don't know for sure though.
                      Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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                      • #12
                        That would be the case for a Millenia S but the j/y car was an 01 Millenia with a KL.

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                        • #13
                          O gotchya.
                          Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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                          • #14
                            Really check your wires. I had a similar issue and after much hair pulling out I found that one of the plug wires was moving separately from the boot. When I would push the boot onto the plug it would push the wire up instead of clipping onto the plug.
                            94' Probe GT
                            11' Subaru WRX

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                            • #15
                              Oh really? Hmm I'll check that too... thanks for the input.

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