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  • #61
    Originally posted by Rocko
    im Suprised by that, one ZE that a buddy received from them was all sludged up and one phone call had them sending another out right away and picking up the bad motor...i hope that company hasnt gone down the drain they have had great service with 3 motors for me and i may buy another from them.

    Good thread and something i will use on my next engine purchase
    Well it is good that you are having good luck with them because I e-mailed them myself over two months ago expressing my dissapointment in their failure to honor the warranty. They never replied. I guess I should probably call to see what the deal is but nobody should ever have to go to this kind of extent for such a large investment. I hope your good luck with them keeps up.

    Cheers!
    Success is a measure of determination!
    Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
    $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
    Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
    Restoration of a legend

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    • #62
      Should I also change out the exhaust side valve springs to the DE ones? Basically should I just swap out all the springs and retainers and locks on the ZE to the DE ones... I am finally getting started...
      In search of the eternal buzz, but not the one from a hon-duh with a fartcan...

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      • #63
        ^^ yes
        Leo
        94 PGTze - sold vid 1 vid 3 vid 2
        98 Pontiac firebird formula WS6 the race car.
        95 PGT-T..AKA..The ReD GhoSt KLDE turbo Built by me ..sold

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Tigger
          Should I also change out the exhaust side valve springs to the DE ones? Basically should I just swap out all the springs and retainers and locks on the ZE to the DE ones... I am finally getting started...
          The problem with ZE retainers is overstated. If you are swapping in the engine with bolt ons and using it as a daily, I wouldn't bother.

          If you plan on pushing the motor, and building one for that purpose then it is definately worth while.
          ¡Renewed Vigor!

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          • #65
            Originally posted by KaedenKy
            The problem with ZE retainers is overstated. If you are swapping in the engine with bolt ons and using it as a daily, I wouldn't bother.

            If you plan on pushing the motor, and building one for that purpose then it is definately worth while.
            Have you done the research to back this claim? It is not overstated at all. I have lots and lots of people e-mailing me now about dropped valves. The numbers seem to have doubled or trippled over the past couple of years. Did you see my photos of the differences in the retainers? If that isn't good enough would you like me to post weights of the "bad" retainers vs. the "good" ones? I can do that for you but it should be very easy to see the differences just from the photos that I already have posted on here.

            And if you are still reluctant to see that there is a problem I can start a list of dropped valves. Those who read this and have dropped valves please PM me and I will compile all of the names into one thread entry here so as to keep this thread from getting too long and lengthy from seperate posts for each. So please PM me if you have dropped valves.
            Last edited by KLZE Porsche; February 15, 2008, 09:24 AM.
            Success is a measure of determination!
            Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
            $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
            Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
            Restoration of a legend

            Comment


            • #66
              It's not worth the time and effort to rip off two heads to change it all out if youre just going to daily drive it. If you're tearing it down for some reason then yeah do it. Otherwise, you might as well drill out the weak oil passage with every ze you get to solve the #6 oil starvation...I never said it didn't happen. It's just not worth the time and effort on a junk yard engine youre just throwing in the car.

              Point being with 3 Ze's driven 60k each not one has failed from retainer breakage. While on the other hand tearing apart an engine once I get it and having to buy buy new head gaskets sucks up a day or so of time and 80 bucks in head gaskets. More if you replace the bolts like you should.
              Last edited by KaedenKy; February 14, 2008, 09:45 PM.
              ¡Renewed Vigor!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by KaedenKy
                It's not worth the time and effort to rip off two heads to change it all out if youre just going to daily drive it. If you're tearing it down for some reason then yeah do it. Otherwise, you might as well drill out the weak oil passage with every ze you get to solve the #6 oil starvation...I never said it didn't happen. It's just not worth the time and effort on a junk yard engine youre just throwing in the car.

                Point being with 3 Ze's driven 60k each not one has failed from retainer breakage. While on the other hand tearing apart an engine once I get it and having to buy buy new head gaskets sucks up a day or so of time and 80 bucks in head gaskets. More if you replace the bolts like you should.
                Well then you didn't read what this thread is about! It is about things to do when installing a new KLZE and not one that is already in the car.

                And you are also spreading bad information in this last post. Drilling out the number 6 passage will not increase pressure and will only chance introducing metal bits into the oil system which could destroy your engine.

                So here you are saying that it would be a waste of money to change out the valvespring retainers to prevent possible damage because of what a pain it is to remove heads while in the same post you are sayng that we should remove our cranks (as if that is any easier) to spend money maching an oil passage to increase oil pressure? Problem is not with #6 oil port but rather that it is furthest from the oil supply just as in this very good example below:

                I have spickets on both ends of my house and on the supply side the pressure/volume is enough to break hoses consistently. On the other end of the house the pressure/volume is bearly enough to wash mud off the cars. So if what your saying is true then if I put a larger spicket on that end of the house then I would start breaking hoses on that end as well?

                No! The problem is too small diameter of a pipe going from the supply side to the other side and the fact that the supply is unbalanced by feeding from only one end . I would have to replace the intire pipe. And even in doing that the pressure/volume would never be equal because of the restriction over distance. It is called flow dynamics.

                So in order to improve flow at #6 the solution would be to reorganize the entire oil flow manifold system. The best way to do this would be to have supply at both ends much the same as sending the water supply at my house to both ends. This way the flow and pressure would be equal at both ends. Why do you suppose that headers have preferrably equal length runners? Or why is it that newer manifolds are starting to dump air into the plenums from the center rather than how it has been done in the past from one end only? More horsepower from more equal flow!

                Originally posted by KaedenKy
                Point being with 3 Ze's driven 60k each not one has failed from retainer breakage.
                You shouldn't be counting your chickens! I have had people swearing against retainer breakage who have gone and broke retainers the next week.
                Last edited by KLZE Porsche; February 15, 2008, 09:20 AM. Reason: Automerged Double Post
                Success is a measure of determination!
                Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
                $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
                Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
                Restoration of a legend

                Comment


                • #68
                  Hell, why do you even have to pull the heads?? I wont be. A couple fittings and some pressure from the compressor and the valves will hold themselves up, pop the locks retainers and springs slam the new set on, done.... I have dont this on many types of motors and never had an issue unless the contact surface of the valve seat was so chewed up the heads needed pulled anyways...
                  In search of the eternal buzz, but not the one from a hon-duh with a fartcan...

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                  • #69
                    Simple fix - Pay attention to your tach when on it. All engines have there break points. Just keep it below 7000 and all should be good. An occasional over rev will not hurt it. Revving past 7000 does not result in much more power anyway.

                    I got lucky as I did not do any of this stuff mentioned upon getting the engine.

                    One thing I did notice was a little Compression check tag that was wired to it. It would be a good thing to have them send you a picture of it. This would help you verify it has good compression and a sign of a well taken care of engine.
                    Last edited by jarnold; February 16, 2008, 08:49 AM. Reason: Automerged Double Post
                    93 Black MX6, KLZE, SS AutoChrome headers, K&N with ATPturbo rubber inlet, Underdrive pulley, no cat and mid resinator, Dynomax SuperTurbo Muffler and 3R Racing Resinated tip, Probinator Chip, Exedy Clutch, RR Poly Mounts and Tran-saver. Have Eibachs and soon to put them with Tokico Blues or maybe Illuminas. 17" 2005 Dodge Stratus R/T wheels with grafted on Mazda 6 center caps. Will get pics.

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                    • #70
                      Something I would like to add, just 30mins ago I broke my ze cams. Now you might say it was my fault because I went out of sequence tightening up the bearing caps. Well this isn't the case, all four cams upon further examination shows that they had pre-existing fractions. The two cams on the front have fractures in the same place the rear cams broke, the rear cams have moisture all the way to the center. This means there were cracks allowing moisture to the inside. Well I'm so mad right now I can't see to type, so the moral of this story is check your cams for cracks. Ok now I'm gonna go sulk in front of the television. Later.
                      KLZE, MS, SS headers/downpipe, 2.5" downpipe, Pacesetter 2.5" exhaust, Interprep valve springs, Egay CAI, 11lb Egay flywheel, KYB GR2 struts w/ vogltand springs, Egay STS, and now I'm gonna go supercharged. Hello SC14.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by nate_v8
                        Something I would like to add, just 30mins ago I broke my ze cams. Now you might say it was my fault because I went out of sequence tightening up the bearing caps. Well this isn't the case, all four cams upon further examination shows that they had pre-existing fractions. The two cams on the front have fractures in the same place the rear cams broke, the rear cams have moisture all the way to the center. This means there were cracks allowing moisture to the inside. Well I'm so mad right now I can't see to type, so the moral of this story is check your cams for cracks. Ok now I'm gonna go sulk in front of the television. Later.
                        Was this on a new ZE install or on a set of cams purchased seperately and installed as upgrade?

                        Also which cams were cracked and where? Can you post photos? What makes you think they were cracked? Water inside them is not an indication of pre-existing cracks - this sounds more like a blown head gasket or cracked block. If water got into your oil supply and then was fed to the cams instead of oil then I could certainly see this as cause for breaking the camshafts. This is why I would like to know where they were broken. If it was near the rear of the rear camshafts or near the front of the fronts then this would indicate oil starvation. The oil is fed to the camshafts through the thrust bearing flanges. If the cams snap near to this point then it can be oil starvation.

                        Although there is still a small chance that it was incorrectly installed cam caps. Torque sequence is not as important as getting the cam caps back into the correct positions and orientation. When installed in a wrong position or clocked 180 degrees around this can produce a thousanth or two of misallignment which can sieze a camshaft causing it to snap.
                        Last edited by KLZE Porsche; February 23, 2008, 06:37 AM.
                        Success is a measure of determination!
                        Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
                        $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
                        Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
                        Restoration of a legend

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          There was not "water" in the head, a leaking head gasket is what made me get my klze in the first place, so I had the muddy looking oil in my de. There was not water in my camshafts realy it was just moisture on the broken surface, it had soaked in where the cracks were at. I know there are, almost imposible to see, hair line cracks on the other cams in an area close to where my other two cams broke. I don't know if my camera has enough mega pixels to show the crack or not, but next weekend when I go back up to work on my car I will try. Another thing is that there wasn't even enough pressure put on the cams at the point they snapped to break a good camshaft. I am also 100% sure the cam caps were correct because of the numbering on the camshafts, I double checked. The cam gears were also marked and I lined the markes up when I removed the cams and realined them when installing the cams, I meshed the gear teath together in the correct position and set the cams in. My dad was helping me when I was installing these cams, and he used to work in the Napa machine shop building engines, and often performance type work as well as OEM stock rebuilds.
                          KLZE, MS, SS headers/downpipe, 2.5" downpipe, Pacesetter 2.5" exhaust, Interprep valve springs, Egay CAI, 11lb Egay flywheel, KYB GR2 struts w/ vogltand springs, Egay STS, and now I'm gonna go supercharged. Hello SC14.

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                          • #73
                            good work mate wat price range should we go for

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                            • #74
                              Can you clarify if the engine was running or not when the cam snapped?
                              In search of the eternal buzz, but not the one from a hon-duh with a fartcan...

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                New info on engine assembly

                                I have put together a great many KL engines and have never to this point had one not fire up the first time that I attempted to crank. And most always I have never even had to adjust the timing.

                                However upon a recent discovery which is not new news to many but I will state it anyways just for those that are attempting installs or may be in the future.

                                My most recent install didn't start and when I put my hand over the throttlebody to check the vacuum on it I found that it was blowing out of the intake rather than intaking. I found this rather obsurd because I lined up the marks perfectly and even went back and checked the shop manual to confirm. But then I discovered an anomoly which we can all thank the manufacturers since they did this to save them some money in production which in turn causes some engine installers a complete pain in the arse. Some cam pulleys are stamped inversely on the back side to save money so that the same cam gear can be used on the front or back heads. Some are uni-sex but some are not.

                                So if you have one of the trans-sexual type cam pulleys which is stamped "R" on one side and "L" on the other and you do not pay attention to which side you have facing out during assembly and you get one reversed then your engine will never start because your valve timing will be out of wack even if you have all the marks lined up correctly. Here are two pictures (Front and Back) of a trans type pulley wheel and keep in mind that my hand never leaves the pulley when I flip it over and all my fingers stay in place exactly as they are. Then you will see how far out your valve timing can be if you accidentially flip one of the gears.

                                Front side:
                                http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...mingGear02.jpg

                                Reverse:
                                http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...mingGear01.jpg
                                Last edited by KLZE Porsche; March 13, 2008, 11:04 AM.
                                Success is a measure of determination!
                                Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
                                $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
                                Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
                                Restoration of a legend

                                Comment

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