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  ProbeTalk.com Forums > Performance Section > 2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Performance

2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Performance Discussion of Performance topics for V6 2.5L

 
May 30th, 2002, 03:09 PM   #1
Vseved
PT Regular
 
: Jun 2001
: Gone to performance land
: 628
Difference between intake manifolds

Just did some research lately. This is what i found out.

Just want to know iz the Millenia intake manifold (Xedos 9 here in Europe) is the same as the Japanese Millenia intake (Eunos 800) with the 200 HP KLZE engine.

There are three types of intake manifolds for the 2.5 KL engine.
The "regular" one found in Mazda MX-6/626 and Ford Probe. (no pictures needed here I suppouse). Then there are the ZE type intake manifolds. The long straight neck type from the Japanese MX-6 : http://www.naplesnews.com/staff/fort...20Manifold.jpg

and the curved neck type from the Japanese Eunos 800 (Millenia) :
http://www.corksport.com/mx3/pictures/pmx3s6n1.jpg
http://www.naplesnews.com/staff/fort...EEnginebay.jpg

But one car is missing here. The Millenia or Xedos 9 with the regular KL 03 engine. What kind of intake manifold does it have?
To no surprise it has the same intake as the KLZE powered Eunos 800. The curved neck type :
http://www.fortunecity.com/silversto...Millenia05.JPG
I even checked at a local Mazda dealer, they have a used 95 Xedos 9 (Millenia). It has those same large square intake runners.

So, who cares....

After checking all possible sources I can make this for sure. The Millenia has: Horsepower: 170hp @ 5800 rpm Torque: 160ft-lbs. @ 4800 rpm
626/MX-6/Probe have: Horsepower: 164hp @ 5600 rpm Torque: 160ft-lbs. @ 4800 rpm

The engines are equal in everthing but the intake manifold. The Millenia intake mani has this large square intake runners like the ZE.
Here you can compare the 03 and the ZE intake runners:
http://www.naplesnews.com/staff/fort...akerunners.jpg

This would explain the 6 HP difference. Millenia has the curved neck KLZE manifold.

To be 100 % sure someone should remove the intake from a wrecked Millenia in a scrapyard and check the intake runners. Are they large as in the ZE intake?
Now I am searching for a used Millenia intake mani since it is very similar to the K8 manifold im my MX-3 and fits much better then the KL mani when I will put the KL in the MX-3.

If the Millenia intake is similar or equal to the ZE intake, it would be cheap enough to find one at a scrapyard form a wrecked car than paying extra money for the "rare" Eunos 800 KLZE intake.


I want to hear your opinions.
 
May 30th, 2002, 08:47 PM   #2
Nuke
Guest
 
: Feb 2002
: Arkansas
: 943
I have both a straight neck ZE manifold and a US '97 Millenia manifold. The runners are the same size. I used the ZE intake gaskets as a template for opening up KL-03 sized phenolic spacers to be used on the Millenia manifold.

I learned about the potential of the Millenia intake some time back on a mx-3 website. This has been common knowledge on this forum and the mx-3.com forums for a while.

I've installed a ZE in a MX-3 and used the Millenia manifold. The Millenia intake is not the easiest to find and is not particularly cheap if you buy from a salvage yard. But, anyone can get lucky! Good luck!
 
May 31st, 2002, 12:17 AM   #3
Vseved
PT Regular
 
: Jun 2001
: Gone to performance land
: 628
Thanks , this is what I need to know.

Interesting, that there is very little information available. People (MX-3 ovners) are still trying to source the "original JDM" ZE curved neck intake. Even Probe owners can use it (minor hood clearance problems vs 6 HP increase).
If anyone sees it at a salvage yard, buy it. You get the ZE intake and more power that comes with it.

I just started the search (and salvage) operation to find a Millenia intake manifold :-) This cars were very popular when they came out in 94.
 
May 31st, 2002, 07:57 AM   #4
Stingray77
Senior Member
 
: Dec 2000
: 3,409
Just to let you know you also need the throttle body for the millenia manifold too. Another reason for the extra HP could be because they use a MAF instead of the VAF.
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May 31st, 2002, 10:58 AM   #5
LiL RayRay
Newbie
 
: Dec 2001
: Edison, NJ
: 21
So the only difference between the US-Spec Millenia intake manifold and the ZE manifold is that the US-spec Millenia has an egr?
__________________
1990 Mustang GT
1992 Mazda Mx-3 [sold]


 
May 31st, 2002, 12:18 PM   #6
Stingray77
Senior Member
 
: Dec 2000
: 3,409
no actaully the millenia manifold does not have the ERG tube cast into it like a 03, i had to tap my manifold for the EGR. Millenia has a diffrent EGR setup.
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May 31st, 2002, 01:34 PM   #7
LiL RayRay
Newbie
 
: Dec 2001
: Edison, NJ
: 21
still not clear

Suppose I buy a ZE for my mx-3 and I want to have the EGR connected. Should I get a ZE with the eunos 800 intake and tap an EGR onto it or should I put on a US Spec Millenia intake? I'm still a bit confused.
__________________
1990 Mustang GT
1992 Mazda Mx-3 [sold]


 
May 31st, 2002, 02:37 PM   #8
Vseved
PT Regular
 
: Jun 2001
: Gone to performance land
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This is another interesting topic. The Millenia MAF.
Combined with Millenia ECU it should work on other KL engines.
So we have a MAF version of a KL engine readily available,
no need to import the ECU and the MAF from Japan.

Someone should try this swap - VAF for MAF and Probe/MX-6
ECU for Millenia ECU and check out the harness if it is the
same. And then put the car on a dyno to find the answer to
the old question whether the VAF is restrictive or not.

I think it is not restrictive for most stock applications. Even with a bored TB it still flows enough. But with some wild cams and engine spinning at 7000 rpm and more it would probably start choking.
 
May 31st, 2002, 03:14 PM   #9
mikeseli
Supercharged Member
 
: Mar 2000
: Laval,Quebec,Canada
: 1,444
:
Originally posted by Stingray77
Just to let you know you also need the throttle body for the millenia manifold too. Another reason for the extra HP could be because they use a MAF instead of the VAF.
Our VAF is not as restrictive as most people think. The 6hp come strickly from the intake manifold. This info comes from dyno runs when comparing my MAF conversion with the VAF.

The ZE intake manifold is even less restrictive then the Millenia intake manifold. The ZE IM should produce another 2-3whp over the Millenia IM.
__________________
1994 PGT with ZE engine and cams, 184whp and stock idle
NEW!!!!!
1995 PGT with ZE engine, special cams, reworked ZE IM, reworked pacesseter headers, 2.5" exhaust, megasquirt, 224whp at 7400rpms, idle 825rpms

1999 civic si with K24A2 engine, should produce close to 250-265whp in natural aspiration on a Dynojet
 
May 31st, 2002, 03:50 PM   #10
Stingray77
Senior Member
 
: Dec 2000
: 3,409
:
Originally posted by mikeseli


Our VAF is not as restrictive as most people think. The 6hp come strickly from the intake manifold. This info comes from dyno runs when comparing my MAF conversion with the VAF.

The ZE intake manifold is even less restrictive then the Millenia intake manifold. The ZE IM should produce another 2-3whp over the Millenia IM.
I never said that the VAF is restrictive, i know it flows well. I know that Mike Palmer saw a 5hp increase with his MAF conversion, and a gain in midrange torque, but that is all he gained.
Also the Millenia manifold is a very "rough" casting, with a port and polish i believe it flows better than a ZE that is ported and polished.
__________________
I don't post here anymore.
 
May 31st, 2002, 04:59 PM   #11
mikeseli
Supercharged Member
 
: Mar 2000
: Laval,Quebec,Canada
: 1,444
:
Originally posted by Stingray77


I never said that the VAF is restrictive, i know it flows well. I know that Mike Palmer saw a 5hp increase with his MAF conversion, and a gain in midrange torque, but that is all he gained.
Also the Millenia manifold is a very "rough" casting, with a port and polish i believe it flows better than a ZE that is ported and polished.
When Mike Palmer did his dyno, it was both on different times. When I performed my dyno runs, they were 5 minutes from each other. I also did 18 dyno runs that day, 4 with a 73mm MAF, 4 with a 59mm MAF, and the rest with the VAF. Every dyno run was 3 to 5 minutes from each other. I made sure that all dyno runs were performed on similar temperature.

As for the intake manifold, this was also dyno proven on my friends 93 PGT with a ZE engine. The swith was done on the same day, actually 1 hour later. The ZE produce more top end power after 6000rpms in comparison to the Millenia intake manifold. The results were on average 2-3whp.
That's why Tekguy couldn't hit the 180whp mark. He had the Millenia IM.

I've done more dyno runs on my PGT than any other PT member. I have done close to 140 dyno runs. I've tested from catalytic converters, mufflers, cams, MAF, VAF, Fuel Pressure, to intake filters, I've also tested plugs and plug wires. This all happened in the last 3 years. I had access to a dyno, every Saturday afternoon. Too bad I don't have much time on Saturdays to dyno my PGT with my new cam setup. I'm sure I'll hit 19Xwhp. I might even beat Frank's 196whp.
__________________
1994 PGT with ZE engine and cams, 184whp and stock idle
NEW!!!!!
1995 PGT with ZE engine, special cams, reworked ZE IM, reworked pacesseter headers, 2.5" exhaust, megasquirt, 224whp at 7400rpms, idle 825rpms

1999 civic si with K24A2 engine, should produce close to 250-265whp in natural aspiration on a Dynojet
 
July 3rd, 2002, 05:33 PM   #12
Nuke
Guest
 
: Feb 2002
: Arkansas
: 943
:
Originally posted by Stingray77
no actaully the millenia manifold does not have the ERG tube cast into it like a 03, i had to tap my manifold for the EGR. Millenia has a diffrent EGR setup.
On the Millenia intake (US spec Millenia) you'll need a different EGR valve that bolts to the rear of the intake. The tube from the exhaust manifold connects to the bottom of the intake at the rear and not to the EGR valve. The EGR supplies exhaust gases to a cast-in passage in the bottom of the intake up to just behind the the TB where there are two holes in the floor of the intake.
 

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