Cheap, cheap, cheap: $18 HEI ignitor as backup to STOCK ignitor, volunteers needed :)

kuki · August 3rd, 2004, 12:28 AM

Ok, I added first setup for those that don't have switch, so that they can test idea. There is no need for any distributor modification, no opening and pulling parts from inside, all modification are done on cables outside distributor. It is possible to make this work only with pocket knife on the road

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8545/HEI.jpg
http://njsr.org/pics/albums/userpics/normal_HEI.jpg

Second schematic is for those that have switch.

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/148/HEIswitchSTOCK.jpg
http://njsr.org/pics/albums/userpics...witchSTOCK.jpg

This is draft. Only for experienced and responsible at this stage of testing.

Please comment this design! I need volunteers for implementation. Idea here is that with switch we can choose to run car with stock ignitor in positon 1 and with switch in position 2 we use HEI ignitor module. It is possible to use HEI ignitor as backup in the case of failure.

There is no need for any distributor modification. All modifications are done externaly. Currently it is not possible to switch while driving car

, before switching module remove car keys from ignition, and then switch to postion 2 or position 1.

And, Yes I need volunteers for implementation and testing. Possible for porting this design on other years of Probe.

OK, I see that I need to clear some things, so that people can easily port this schematic to 93 or others years.

Connector C134 :
Pin 5 - is transistors emiter that is grounded
Pin 6 - is transistors base that is connected to PCM (computer)

by cuting those two wires you are disabling switcher transistor inside distributor.
Pin 5 wire that is cutted is ground, and that ground you need to connect to (W) connector on HEI module.
Pin 6 wire that is cutted comes from computer and you need to connect it to (G) connector on HEI module.

Connector C170
Pin 1 - is transistors collector that connects to primary coil(- side), and goes to DLC connector IG-
Pin 3 - Comes from ignition Switch and connects to primary coil (+ side)

Pin 1 should be connected to (C) connector on HEI module. HEI module switches that connector on and off ground.
(B) is power supply for HEI module that needs to be connected to Pin 3

Hope that this helps in porting to other years of cars.

OK, from schematic it looks like 1993 is same as 1994 so, yes you can try same schematic for 1993 year.

For 1995 it looks like they switched position of two wires, so everything is same for conector C134 (6 pin connector), but C170 (3 pin connector) have been permutated so for that year Pin1 should be connected to (B) connector on HEI module and Pin2 should be connected to (C) connector on HEI module.

Hope that helps!

I will try to make pictures for 1993 and 1995 years, but I need confirmation that this setup works on those years first.

Well, now I need help from you!

Check this thread http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701114528

If somebody helps me find those connectors I can make fix for distributor that will be simple as plug and play. No cuting, no splicing, nothing, just disconnect distributor two connectors, plug HEI and drive!!!!!!

Plug and drive solution.

But I need those connectors!

Just imagine, your car dies on road, and you can just unplug connector, plug HEI and drive. No cutting, no splicing, no thinking what wire goes where, just plug it in.

how-high · August 3rd, 2004, 02:54 AM

link aint working

Project GT · August 3rd, 2004, 03:10 AM

worked for me...nice diagram.....you need people to try it?

kuki · August 3rd, 2004, 10:05 AM

Where can I upload pictures and schematics so that they are available all the time to others?

Thanks

Omaha95PGT · August 3rd, 2004, 10:29 AM

www.njsr.org

IIRC, the upper right of the page has an uploader section

Your original picture is working. Looks like a good setup. You may even be able to test back to back stock vs HEI ignition systems.

kuki · August 3rd, 2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by how-high

link aint working

fixed problem!

KevinD · August 3rd, 2004, 01:04 PM

The circuit numbers & wire colors you're using change somewhat, depending on the year. Look at this thread for distributor wiring & connector diagrams for all 2nd Gen. PGT's.
KevinD

Project GT · August 3rd, 2004, 01:19 PM

will those diagrams above work on 93 disty's?

kuki · August 3rd, 2004, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Project GT

will those diagrams above work on 93 disty's?

Yes, I think that they would work, because 93 and 94 distributors are the same. Not sure for wiring, but if you have schematic, post it somewhere, so that I can take a look, or compare it with my wire numbers.

Omaha95PGT · August 3rd, 2004, 03:21 PM

Actually, the wire position should match perfectly between the '93-'94 disty's. The only thing that won't match up are the wires' colors. In other words, go by the wire position not the color.

kuki · August 3rd, 2004, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omaha95PGT

Actually, the wire position should match perfectly between the '93-'94 disty's. The only thing that won't match up are the wires' colors. In other words, go by the wire position not the color.

OK, I updated original post and I hope this setup will work on 95 disty, too

D4rKSt4R · August 18th, 2004, 12:58 PM

With this setup....will the tach work???...ANd do this fix really work....I'M waiting an answer to begin it...thx

mimmp · August 18th, 2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuki

Connector C170
Pin 1 - is transistors collector that connects to primary coil(- side), and goes to DLC connector IG-
Pin 3 - Comes from ignition Switch and connects to primary coil (+ side)

Pin 1 should be connected to (C) connector on HEI module. HEI module switches that connector on and off ground.
(B) is power supply for HEI module that needs to be connected to Pin 3

Do these connections need to be switched (since they are taps and not by-pass connections), or can they be wired directly to the HEI to set quiescently until the Pins 5 & 6 from the C134 are switched the the HEI to give it spark control? That would eliminate a bit of complexity and require a simpler (and cheaper) switch.

EloM · August 19th, 2004, 05:18 AM

Why are you cutting the wire on pin 5? I didn't. The guy that originally made this mod didn't, why do you need to?

jp94GT · November 12th, 2004, 05:35 PM

I did this mod exactly as shown, cutting pins 5 and 6. 50 miles later it seems to be working great. Read about it here:

http://www.pagel.net/Probe

Thanks.

akira95GT · December 28th, 2004, 07:31 PM

Has anyone confirmed that this works? I have a 95pgt and i'm ready to cut/connect the wires as we speak. The 95 disty's 6pin connector has 5 wires though, with one connector not in use.

Bluexcell · December 29th, 2004, 08:44 AM

for those skilled in electronics who want to look at changing the existing ignitor IGBT transistor and use an external coil..in the disty... here is the work ive done regarding the ignition so far..

info on how to source one here..

http://www.incony.org/KLZEWiki/pwp_1...Page&iPage=HEI

fe2cruz · February 21st, 2005, 12:20 PM

i messed up this mod. I had two wires crossed when i cranked it the first time. I think I may have messed up something now. I returned everything back to stock and now I have CKP & CID error codes. where is the crank-ID sensor? Is it part of the ICM inside the distributor? I cant get spark even though I returned everything back to normal. The 2.5l 94probe was running fine before I did the HEI mod. All the fuses are good. How do I fix the CKP & CID so I can get running again? Please help?

kuki · April 7th, 2005, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EloM

Why are you cutting the wire on pin 5? I didn't. The guy that originally made this mod didn't, why do you need to?

Well, first this modification is not the same. Original modification disabled transistor by cuting internal strap (but you have to open distributor) and that way disabling transistor. By cuting internal strap you are disconecting transistor base, but for that you have to open distributor, because transistor base is not accessible from outside. That was something that I didn't like, and because I looked into solution where I can make simple switch between stock distributor and HEI, that gave me idea that in order to disable transistor you can cut his emiter that is accesible from outside

in this case (Pin 5). Hope that this explanation help.

Well, in some situation it is possible to leave (Pin 5), but that depends of the condition of transistor. If transisor is burned in way that his impedance is infinite than you don't have to cut (Pin 5). If transistor is shorted and that way distroyed, than you can not use this scenario. Also in case that distributor works fine before this modification, if you don't cut (Pin 5) you risk your good transistor inside distributor, because I'm not sure what voltage will be in that case between base and emiter (In that case stock transistor and HEI work in paralel). It is possible that even in that case everything would work fine, and in that case both transistors, internal stock, and external switch in HEI would work together, but that is something that needs testing and more money than I have, because as I sad you risk burning good stock transistor and destroying stock distributor.

kuki · April 8th, 2005, 02:24 PM

Well, simplest solution, no need for opening distributor or cuting wires, just splice them.

http://img156.exs.cx/img156/5402/heisimplest2gu.jpg

Same as above, but now you can switch between stock ignition or HEI ignition with simple and inexpensive switch.

http://img25.exs.cx/img25/4879/heisimplestswitch5ur.jpg

Please this schematic is for Ford Probe GT 1993 and 1994.
Please post results here, and your experience which ignitor works better stock or HEI. Now is possible to compare them, just by simple switching between them.

eazypic · April 8th, 2005, 08:24 PM

1994 pgt

is this the correct diagram I'll need ?
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8545/HEI.jpg

Have others tried this way of doing it ?

Thanks

kuki · April 8th, 2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazypic

1994 pgt

is this the correct diagram I'll need ?
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8545/HEI.jpg

Have others tried this way of doing it ?

Thanks

Try first this one http://img156.exs.cx/img156/5402/heisimplest2gu.jpg and if this one is not working for you then just cut those two wires on (Pin5) and (Pin6) and you will get this one http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8545/HEI.jpg

Yes, jp94GT tried latest one, you can check his site with lot of pictures http://www.pagel.net/Probe

And please post your experience, which one worked better for you. My advice is that you start with first one , because you don't have to cut wires, just splice them. If it is not working, it means that ignitor is probably shorted, and in that case cut those wires to disable stock ignitor. In that case use second schematic.

kuki · April 10th, 2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fe2cruz

i messed up this mod. I had two wires crossed when i cranked it the first time. I think I may have messed up something now. I returned everything back to stock and now I have CKP & CID error codes. where is the crank-ID sensor? Is it part of the ICM inside the distributor? I cant get spark even though I returned everything back to normal. The 2.5l 94probe was running fine before I did the HEI mod. All the fuses are good. How do I fix the CKP & CID so I can get running again? Please help?

What wires did you crossed? Picture or schematic would be helpfull? It is difficult to answer question without more data.

fe2cruz · April 10th, 2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuki

What wires did you crossed? Picture or schematic would be helpfull? It is difficult to answer question without more data.

I figured it out
I fried the CPK1 inside the stock disty
So I replaced it with cheap reman and it ran great for 2 weeks
then it completely died, took my alternator with it
I even replaced both axles because my boots were leaking
I had to crack through afrozen bastard of a nut too!
So the only thing left is an O-rings inside the tranny
that is making my shift-rod leak.

Well now that everything except the leaky tranny
is replaced & running I have:
detonation &/or pistron slap &/or valve spring failure
on cylinder #4

The car has really kicked my ass this time
I'm gonna work on my bike instead
i'll come back to this probe again in a few months
after i can get some riding time out of a more
reliable method of transportation

I love probes and think they are very reliable cars
this one just doesn't like me very much

kuki · April 10th, 2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fe2cruz

I figured it out
I fried the CPK1 inside the stock disty
So I replaced it with cheap reman and it ran great for 2 weeks
then it completely died, took my alternator with it
I even replaced both axles because my boots were leaking
I had to crack through afrozen bastard of a nut too!
So the only thing left is an O-rings inside the tranny
that is making my shift-rod leak.

Well now that everything except the leaky tranny
is replaced & running I have:
detonation &/or pistron slap &/or valve spring failure
on cylinder #4

The car has really kicked my ass this time
I'm gonna work on my bike instead
i'll come back to this probe again in a few months
after i can get some riding time out of a more
reliable method of transportation

I love probes and think they are very reliable cars
this one just doesn't like me very much

Bad luck

August 3rd, 2004, 12:28 AM	#1
kuki Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 66	Cheap, cheap, cheap: $12.99 HEI ignitor as backup to STOCK ignitor Ok, I added first setup for those that don't have switch, so that they can test idea. There is no need for any distributor modification, no opening and pulling parts from inside, all modification are done on cables outside distributor. It is possible to make this work only with pocket knife on the road http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8545/HEI.jpg http://njsr.org/pics/albums/userpics/normal_HEI.jpg Second schematic is for those that have switch. http://img28.exs.cx/img28/148/HEIswitchSTOCK.jpg http://njsr.org/pics/albums/userpics...witchSTOCK.jpg This is draft. Only for experienced and responsible at this stage of testing. Please comment this design! I need volunteers for implementation. Idea here is that with switch we can choose to run car with stock ignitor in positon 1 and with switch in position 2 we use HEI ignitor module. It is possible to use HEI ignitor as backup in the case of failure. There is no need for any distributor modification. All modifications are done externaly. Currently it is not possible to switch while driving car , before switching module remove car keys from ignition, and then switch to postion 2 or position 1. And, Yes I need volunteers for implementation and testing. Possible for porting this design on other years of Probe. OK, I see that I need to clear some things, so that people can easily port this schematic to 93 or others years. Connector C134 : Pin 5 - is transistors emiter that is grounded Pin 6 - is transistors base that is connected to PCM (computer) by cuting those two wires you are disabling switcher transistor inside distributor. Pin 5 wire that is cutted is ground, and that ground you need to connect to (W) connector on HEI module. Pin 6 wire that is cutted comes from computer and you need to connect it to (G) connector on HEI module. Connector C170 Pin 1 - is transistors collector that connects to primary coil(- side), and goes to DLC connector IG- Pin 3 - Comes from ignition Switch and connects to primary coil (+ side) Pin 1 should be connected to (C) connector on HEI module. HEI module switches that connector on and off ground. (B) is power supply for HEI module that needs to be connected to Pin 3 Hope that this helps in porting to other years of cars. OK, from schematic it looks like 1993 is same as 1994 so, yes you can try same schematic for 1993 year. For 1995 it looks like they switched position of two wires, so everything is same for conector C134 (6 pin connector), but C170 (3 pin connector) have been permutated so for that year Pin1 should be connected to (B) connector on HEI module and Pin2 should be connected to (C) connector on HEI module. Hope that helps! I will try to make pictures for 1993 and 1995 years, but I need confirmation that this setup works on those years first. Well, now I need help from you! Check this thread http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701114528 If somebody helps me find those connectors I can make fix for distributor that will be simple as plug and play. No cuting, no splicing, nothing, just disconnect distributor two connectors, plug HEI and drive!!!!!! Plug and drive solution. But I need those connectors! Just imagine, your car dies on road, and you can just unplug connector, plug HEI and drive. No cutting, no splicing, no thinking what wire goes where, just plug it in. Last edited by kuki; April 8th, 2005 at 02:29 PM.

August 3rd, 2004, 10:29 AM	#5
Omaha95PGT o=II=o Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Norfolk, VA Age: 39 Posts: 6,930	www.njsr.org IIRC, the upper right of the page has an uploader section Your original picture is working. Looks like a good setup. You may even be able to test back to back stock vs HEI ignition systems. __________________ Marc M.- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 177.4 whp/159.6 wtq 2000 BMW M-Roadster 1976 BMW 2002 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Omaha95PGT; August 3rd, 2004 at 10:35 AM.

August 3rd, 2004, 01:04 PM	#7
KevinD Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Eastern Washington State Posts: 11,621	The circuit numbers & wire colors you're using change somewhat, depending on the year. Look at this thread for distributor wiring & connector diagrams for all 2nd Gen. PGT's. KevinD __________________ 1995 Sapphire Blue Mustang GT Convertible, 2006 Storm Red Metallic Mercedes-Benz CLK 350 Cabriolet, 2006 Dark Shadow Gray Ford F250 V10 Supercab 4x4, 2003 San Marino Red Acura CL Type S, 2002 Burgundy Pearl Suzuki XL-7 Touring, 1971 Spring Green Jeep J4000 Gladiator, 1966 Signal Flare Red Ford Fairlane, to name a few...

August 3rd, 2004, 03:21 PM	#10
Omaha95PGT o=II=o Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Norfolk, VA Age: 39 Posts: 6,930	Actually, the wire position should match perfectly between the '93-'94 disty's. The only thing that won't match up are the wires' colors. In other words, go by the wire position not the color. __________________ Marc M.- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 177.4 whp/159.6 wtq 2000 BMW M-Roadster 1976 BMW 2002 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

August 18th, 2004, 12:58 PM	#12
D4rKSt4R Newbie Join Date: Jun 2004 Age: 24 Posts: 6	With this setup....will the tach work???...ANd do this fix really work....I'M waiting an answer to begin it...thx Last edited by D4rKSt4R; August 18th, 2004 at 02:02 PM.

August 3rd, 2004, 02:54 AM	#2
how-high PT Regular Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: spain Age: 32 Posts: 549	link aint working

August 3rd, 2004, 03:10 AM	#3
Project GT Balls Across The Nose Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,492	worked for me...nice diagram.....you need people to try it?

August 3rd, 2004, 10:05 AM	#4
kuki Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 66	Where can I upload pictures and schematics so that they are available all the time to others? Thanks

August 3rd, 2004, 01:19 PM	#8
Project GT Balls Across The Nose Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,492	will those diagrams above work on 93 disty's?

August 19th, 2004, 05:18 AM	#14
EloM PT Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Age: 30 Posts: 608	Why are you cutting the wire on pin 5? I didn't. The guy that originally made this mod didn't, why do you need to? __________________ 93 PGT Electric Blue KL-Z(zed To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. )E, Stoker100 Chipped To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , OBX headers, JJ TP, Vibrant Power 1 muffler, 67mm bored TB, CAI, CM#2, MX-3 FW, Ultimate STS, Homemade Grounding Kit, AWR Sway Bar, Rear Protege Calipers.

November 12th, 2004, 05:35 PM	#15
jp94GT Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 9	I did this mod exactly as shown, cutting pins 5 and 6. 50 miles later it seems to be working great. Read about it here: http://www.pagel.net/Probe Thanks.

December 28th, 2004, 07:31 PM	#16
akira95GT Supercharged Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Lafayette, IN Age: 25 Posts: 1,240	Has anyone confirmed that this works? I have a 95pgt and i'm ready to cut/connect the wires as we speak. The 95 disty's 6pin connector has 5 wires though, with one connector not in use. __________________ '02 WR Blue WRX 21psi = 322ft/lb & 357whp To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Ex: Laser Red '95 Probe GT MTX SUCK-SQUISH-BANG-BLOW!

December 29th, 2004, 08:44 AM	#17
Bluexcell Guest Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Norfolk England Posts: 279	for those skilled in electronics who want to look at changing the existing ignitor IGBT transistor and use an external coil..in the disty... here is the work ive done regarding the ignition so far.. info on how to source one here.. http://www.incony.org/KLZEWiki/pwp_1...Page&iPage=HEI

February 21st, 2005, 12:20 PM	#18
fe2cruz Search Impaired Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: yorba linda Age: 34 Posts: 87	HELP THE CAR WON't Start CKP & CID i messed up this mod. I had two wires crossed when i cranked it the first time. I think I may have messed up something now. I returned everything back to stock and now I have CKP & CID error codes. where is the crank-ID sensor? Is it part of the ICM inside the distributor? I cant get spark even though I returned everything back to normal. The 2.5l 94probe was running fine before I did the HEI mod. All the fuses are good. How do I fix the CKP & CID so I can get running again? Please help? Last edited by fe2cruz; February 21st, 2005 at 05:34 PM.

April 8th, 2005, 02:24 PM	#20
kuki Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 66	Simplest HEI-STOCK replacement for testing Well, simplest solution, no need for opening distributor or cuting wires, just splice them. http://img156.exs.cx/img156/5402/heisimplest2gu.jpg Same as above, but now you can switch between stock ignition or HEI ignition with simple and inexpensive switch. http://img25.exs.cx/img25/4879/heisimplestswitch5ur.jpg Please this schematic is for Ford Probe GT 1993 and 1994. Please post results here, and your experience which ignitor works better stock or HEI. Now is possible to compare them, just by simple switching between them. Last edited by kuki; April 8th, 2005 at 02:40 PM.

April 8th, 2005, 08:24 PM	#21
eazypic Search Impaired Join Date: Apr 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 57	1994 pgt is this the correct diagram I'll need ? http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8545/HEI.jpg Have others tried this way of doing it ? Thanks Last edited by eazypic; April 8th, 2005 at 08:25 PM.