Advertise with ProbeTalk - click here to find out how!
Advertise with ProbeTalk - click here to find out how!

ProbeTalk.com Forums

Go Back   ProbeTalk.com Forums > Performance Section > 2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Performance

Notices

2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Performance Discussion of Performance topics for V6 2.5L

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 12th, 2007, 12:35 PM   #1
coruptedone
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: layton, ut
Age: 27
Posts: 11
klze or klde

Wondering wich engine i should start with cuz I am planning on building up a motor with stroker kit(3.0l if posible), 11.5:1 compression pistons, full mandrel bent exaust to quad out muffler, port and polish heads, custom intake manifold, cold air intake (or try to figure out an itb setup), etc... would it be better to pay the extra and start with a klze or drag a klde from the junk yard.
coruptedone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2007, 02:15 PM   #2
attack_mx6
Balls Across The Nose
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Iraq
Age: 33
Posts: 18,001
They acutally still make a stroker kit ?

i thought the only one they had was 2.7
attack_mx6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2007, 03:44 PM   #3
pile_of_rd1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rockford IL
Age: 26
Posts: 2,396
This thread is dumb from the beginning. I doubt you will but if you plan on ripping the motor apart and going custom... it really doesnt matter what you get, just get a millenia motor so you can have the square ported heads atleast, but the valve retainers are SHIT on anything with the square ported heads. (ZE heads).. They will straight break at an idle.

Just turbo the damn thing and spend 600 bucks on a megasquirt. why not get 350 hp instead of 250hp, and actually add some torque.

PS: Theyre is a search button... I bet for every new topic theres at least 5 out there that will answer your question... Just search, it sounds like its harder, but then you dont have to wait for an answer thats probably just going to be someone flaming anyways. Just a little .02 on my part.
__________________
1997 Probe GT- ZE
1992 MX-3 GS F2T/FE3 hybrid

Scott

Last edited by pile_of_rd1; May 12th, 2007 at 03:46 PM.
pile_of_rd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2007, 06:38 PM   #4
attack_mx6
Balls Across The Nose
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Iraq
Age: 33
Posts: 18,001
i never had my vavle retainers break.. and i gone for 7k quite a few times over the last 4 to 5 years.
attack_mx6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2007, 07:33 PM   #5
KevinD
Moderator
 
KevinD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Eastern Washington State
Posts: 11,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by pile_of_rd1
This thread is dumb from the beginning. I doubt you will but if you plan on ripping the motor apart and going custom... it really doesnt matter what you get, just get a millenia motor so you can have the square ported heads atleast, but the valve retainers are SHIT on anything with the square ported heads. (ZE heads).. They will straight break at an idle.

Just turbo the damn thing and spend 600 bucks on a megasquirt. why not get 350 hp instead of 250hp, and actually add some torque.

PS: Theyre is a search button... I bet for every new topic theres at least 5 out there that will answer your question... Just search, it sounds like its harder, but then you dont have to wait for an answer thats probably just going to be someone flaming anyways. Just a little .02 on my part.
And who appointed you a moderator?
Watch the smart mouth next time.
KevinD
__________________
1995 Sapphire Blue Mustang GT Convertible, 2006 Storm Red Metallic Mercedes-Benz CLK 350 Cabriolet, 2006 Dark Shadow Gray Ford F250 V10 Supercab 4x4, 2004 Perlite Gray Metallic Mercedes-Benz E320 4Matic, 2002 Burgundy Pearl Suzuki XL-7 Touring, 1971 Spring Green Jeep J4000 Gladiator, 1966 Signal Flare Red Ford Fairlane, to name a few...
KevinD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2007, 06:22 PM   #6
cg_fin_007
Search Impaired
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Johnstown, PA
Age: 41
Posts: 82
Question KLZE with KLDE MAF?

Greetings all,

I had a KLZE installed after I blew my KLDE. Curious thing is, I noticed the MAF has the code for the KLDE on it while the block code is KL31101. I think Ford just slapped the manifold and MAF onto the KLZE. Could this be possible? Or perhaps they may have put the KLZE block and manifold in but used the KLDE MAF?

It does run relatively well but I feel as though it doesn't have the power it should, especially in the upper end. I seem to get a two stage power curve instead of a smooth transition through the gear and RPMs.

If so (having the wrong manifold or MAF), what performance decrease could I expect as opposed to having the KLZE manifold? Can I overcome any performance decrease by getting my ECU programmed by Probinator? If not, where is the best buy on a KLZE intake?

Also, on the ECU - would a Probinator ECU program be comparable to the more expensive JET ECU work?

Many thanks!

Last edited by cg_fin_007; June 15th, 2007 at 05:02 AM.
cg_fin_007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #7
Cg1590
PT Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cbus/Dayton,Ohio
Age: 24
Posts: 783
im confused did u buy a full ZE and swap it in? or jus parts of the ZE? i believe that the MAF sensor is the same no matter wat. all the sensors should b the same as the ones on ur DE. and the probinator chip will do the exact thing the J spec ECU will do. it has more aggresive VRIS points and fuel mapping for the ze. really wakes it up!
Cg1590 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 05:00 AM   #8
cg_fin_007
Search Impaired
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Johnstown, PA
Age: 41
Posts: 82
Thanks for the reply. The swap included the entire engine. I am not sure about any parts left over from the DE that would have worked on the ZE - which is really the basis of my question. In fact, they used one valve cover from the old engine and left the front Mazda valve cover on the new engine. I have the DE valve cover for the front and I will be swapping that out as well. I have no clue as to why they did that. But it does support that they used minor parts from the DE for the ZE.

Regarding your advice on the ECU, which has the more aggressive VRIS and mapping - the Probinator chip or the JET chip?

KevinD - I recall you assisted me much on the purchase of this engine about 1.5 years ago. Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

Last edited by cg_fin_007; June 15th, 2007 at 05:04 AM.
cg_fin_007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #9
AntiBoostGT
Donating Member
 
AntiBoostGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Columbia, MD
Age: 29
Posts: 2,172
Quote:
i thought the only one they had was 2.7
Threadjack - Where can I get some info on the stroker kit? Is there a thread or a vendor with more info?
__________________
"Built Ford tough... with Mazda stuff"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- [Sold]

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- bone stock daily driver.
AntiBoostGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2007, 11:12 PM   #10
Da-ze
Balls Across The Nose
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: PA
Age: 31
Posts: 2,198
I can't believe I even read this

the search button works extremely well...


Ze's work fine on de computers, and its a VAF and not a MAF- VAF's measure volume and work off of the engines response( it moves) as MAF's measure mass or density ... they work very differantly... And at WOT- the vaf doesn't meter anything past WOT, its all off a set table within the ecu... The ZE benefits with more fueling, but who knows where? noone except mazda..

dropped valves are as common as a sixth finger.
Da-ze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 09:55 AM   #11
cg_fin_007
Search Impaired
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Johnstown, PA
Age: 41
Posts: 82
Question De vs. ZE valve covers? Throttlebody?

Has anyone used the DE valve covers on the ZE engine? I swapped the front cover out today (the ZE cover that came with the engine was cracked). Upon installation, we realized there is a breather tube (?) on the front of the ZE cover that is not on the DE. It ports out the front of the cover, parallels the cover lip along the right front, and extends toward the rear of the engine along the right side of the cover, connecting to a rubber house. I have photos of the ZE cover with masking tape highlighting the tube in question (however, I could not find the command to post pictures in this thread. I can send them to anyone interested in answering the question).

I stopped at Ford and they thought it was a breather tube for the EGR system. They could not verify if the rear valve cover had a breather tube and stated that if it did not, dangerous levels of pressue could build, thus blowing gaskets. I brought the PGT home and parked it immediately.

So:
A) What is it?
B) What does the opposite end attach to?
C) Does the ZE require this tube whereas the DE did not?
D) Has anyone modified a DE valve cover to incorporate this tube or would it be better to obtain another ZE valve cover?
E) if the latter, does anyone have one they wish to sell?


Regarding throttle bodies, does anyone have suggestions for replacement, wither from another vehicle using the engine but had a bigger throttle body or is there a better aftermarket product?

Thanks! Chris

PS Just a note that even though I love this site and have been posting and reading it for many years, a system for ordering of thread titles leaves a lot to be desired regarding efficient location of specific subject threads. In other words, many of us don't have the time to read through every thread of every post that comes up even AFTER PROPERLY USING THE SEARCH function. Thanks to all of you who undertsand this and respond despite the fact that the question may have been answered in the obscurity of another thread and realize that some people have to take time off from their careers to even have time to complete such minor modifications and accompanying research.

Last edited by cg_fin_007; September 14th, 2007 at 09:05 AM.
cg_fin_007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 10:18 AM   #12
tybrones87
Guest
 
tybrones87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Farmington, MN
Posts: 1,708
Neither require the tube... Mazda took it off of the newer engines. Its part of the PCV system.

If you wish, You can just plug up both ends, ie. where it starts and stops and be done with it
tybrones87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 10:28 AM   #13
cg_fin_007
Search Impaired
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Johnstown, PA
Age: 41
Posts: 82
Many thanks Tybrones!

I won't have to worry about the front port as the DE valve cover does not have it and I currently have a plug and clamp on the beginning of the rubber hose where the metal feeder tube would have connected to....

Sounds like I guessed right
cg_fin_007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 01:17 PM   #14
CrimSon_ReD
Chasing the Boogey Man!
 
CrimSon_ReD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Making Movies
Age: 49
Posts: 20,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg_fin_007
PS Just a note that even though I love this site and have been posting and reading it for many years.

For shame on you, you should be far more active and share your thoughts in thread more. If you love the site so much, you will love many of the people.

George

PS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAQS
The KLZE - This is really the only true/beneficial engine swap upgrade for our cars. It is a 2.5 V6, found in a few Japan marketed Mazda cars, it boasts 190 - 197hp (dependant of year), and 160ft/lbs. Essentially the same as the stock KLDE, getting it's higher power output thanks to slightly more aggressive cams, higher compression pistons (10.0:1 compared to the DE's 9.2:1), better flowing intake manifold and heads, and a slightly more performance oriented ECU.
__________________
Artist, Writer, Photographer, Video Producer, Daddy!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by CrimSon_ReD; July 13th, 2007 at 01:20 PM.
CrimSon_ReD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 02:39 PM   #15
drumer919
Out of the woodwork
 
drumer919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Columbus
Posts: 7,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by pile_of_rd1
Just turbo the damn thing and spend 600 bucks on a megasquirt. why not get 350 hp instead of 250hp, and actually add some torque.
IIRC the highest NA HP a KL has ever put down was ~210 and to give you an idea of how modded that probe was it rev'd to 11k, a P&P, high compression stroker KL will not net over 200WHP.
__________________
Dan- ASE certified-A1, A4, A5, A8
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit...
R.I.P. Joe Mohr 10/3/06, Tom Major 2/17/08
I dont do cars anymore, I have a type 03 FFL...
drumer919 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 06:10 PM   #16
mazdapowered93
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Rouyn-Noranda PQ
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumer919
IIRC the highest NA HP a KL has ever put down was ~210 and to give you an idea of how modded that probe was it rev'd to 11k, a P&P, high compression stroker KL will not net over 200WHP.

The highest i know is a guy(leo323) putting down 231 whp with a NA kl-ze with ITB,megasquirt..................

and a friend of mikeseli putting down 224 whp with special cams,modified intake,custom header............

so is possible but is hard and you need to get custom part because we have just a few company that make part for the Probe GT and the part they make some company is not the best sometime compared a other cars market.
__________________
Probe GT 1993:Teins SS coil over,HS headers,AWR motor mount, AWR trailling arm,addco swaybar,SS link kits,ss brake line,ss clutch line,walbro 255,Fidanza flywheel,RR UDP,18 spyn spyder wheel..
mazdapowered93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 07:06 PM   #17
projexneon
PT Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 633
i didnt kno they had stroker kit
__________________
93 PGT-ZE for sale $3300
projexneon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2007, 10:08 PM   #18
BrokenJohnny
Search Impaired
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by pile_of_rd1
This thread is dumb from the beginning. I doubt you will but if you plan on ripping the motor apart and going custom... it really doesnt matter what you get, just get a millenia motor so you can have the square ported heads atleast, but the valve retainers are SHIT on anything with the square ported heads. (ZE heads).. They will straight break at an idle.

Just turbo the damn thing and spend 600 bucks on a megasquirt. why not get 350 hp instead of 250hp, and actually add some torque.

PS: Theyre is a search button... I bet for every new topic theres at least 5 out there that will answer your question... Just search, it sounds like its harder, but then you dont have to wait for an answer thats probably just going to be someone flaming anyways. Just a little .02 on my part.



Now, for the polite version:

I would suggest going with the KLDE. In fact, we had this discussion on the MX6 forums a few days ago. The main difference between the ZE and the DE are different cams, higher compression ratio, and better flowing intake manifold.

Now, since you plan on doing a whole engine rebuild, and will be replacing most of those anyways, you might as well save money by buying a KLDE. Buying a ZE and swapping out all the parts anyways would be wasteful, and impractical.

You could get a KLDE, stroke it, replace the pistons and rods, have higher compression, and just swap the DE manifold with a ZE and have your heads port matched. It would still be cheaper and more practical in the long run than doing that with the ZE.



I don't know what "pile_of_rd1" is talking about regarding the millenia motor and square ported heads, and crappy valve retainers. That might very well be true, but this is the first I have every heard of it. I would not recommend the millenia motor, because the intake manifold sometimes has clearance issues with the hood. Plus, the regular ZE manifold looks a lot nicer. It has the V6 logo across it, and looks "cleaner" than the millenia.

I understand your desire to go all motor. I myself tend to lean in that direction. But you really can't beat the power-per-dollar if a well set up turbo.

Now, if you stroked your engine, AND boosted...well, that would be insane. But you'd start having some serious traction issues because the car is front wheel drive. Traction bars would almost be a must.

But remember, horsepower DOES NOT equal speed! Speed is the result of horsepower, torque, drive train, transmission, traction, suspension, torsion, temperature, weight, and aerodynamics. Just because your car has 400 wheel horsepower does not mean it will win in a race against a car with 200 wheel horsepower.

But really, unless you are dead set on going "all-motor", I highly recommend going turbo. What you are talking about will cost thousands of dollars for parts and labor, and will yield at most roughly 100 HP. For nearly half the price, you could have a built engine, run high boost, and literally be able to have as much power as you want. With forged rods and pistons, and high boost, you could make 300-400 horse at the wheels!

The downside? Boosted engines tend to be less reliable than NA engines. But this is a point which can be HIGHLY debated.

Really, as long as you don't cheap out on anything, have it all properly installed, and are thorough with the tuning, (and don't drive like an idiot), you'll be fine either way, NA or turbo.

Now, if you are actually serious about doing all this to your motor, you obviously have a lot of money. And there is one thing I've always wanted to see on a probe/mx6: TRUE dual exhaust. I mean, separate pipes for each exhaust manifold, running all the way to the back.

People say it can't be done. But I bet if you kept your diameter size down, and routed both pipes together, having their bends match each other perfectly, it might be possible!

As far as individual throttle bodies go, don't waste your time or money, Unless you're rich. Just get yours bored out to 65mm, or perhaps 67mm.

I hope this helps.



Johnny

Last edited by BrokenJohnny; July 13th, 2007 at 10:23 PM.
BrokenJohnny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ProbeTalk.com is not affiliated in any way with the Ford Motor Company, the Mazda Motor Corporation, or any subsidiaries of either company.
All views and opinions expressed on this message board are those of the author and not the owners of ProbeTalk.com.

Locations of visitors to this page