Advertise with ProbeTalk - click here to find out how!



Advertise with ProbeTalk - click here to find out how!
Advertise with ProbeTalk - click here to find out how!

ProbeTalk.com Forums

  ProbeTalk.com Forums > Photography, Video, Photoshop > Probe Pic & Video Post

Probe Pic & Video Post Post your PROBE-RELATED pics and Videos here!

 
October 8th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #1
Mad
Search Impaired
 
: Jul 2009
: Russia
: 50
!KLDE head VS KLZE head!

May be you have already known it, but I was suprised. I checked heads on our vacuum stend for heads(it is like dyno for engines) and had surprising results!
Look:

pink - stock KLZE head
blue - stock KL head
red - improved KL head on stock valves


red - stock KLZE head
green - improved KLZE head on stock valves.

Stock kl head = Improved KLZE head on stock valves.
__________________
Mazda MX-3 KLZE 11.9 1/4 mile



: Automerged Doublepost
 
October 8th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #2
maac0953
Donating Member
 
 
: Feb 2007
: orlando
: 29
: 1,319
wow thats cool man.

so you think DE oval ports flow better then ZE square ports?

and DE heads improved?????? do you mean ported and polished up a bit?


i plan on buying klg4 heads and doing my best to port& polish them for when i boost in a few months

do you think it will help me spool up quicker? it should right
__________________
black 94 probe gt-on 5lbs boost - t3/t4 50trim dynoed at 210hp & 194 tq on fmu

 
October 8th, 2009, 11:44 PM   #3
Mad
Search Impaired
 
: Jul 2009
: Russia
: 50
I am sure, absolutly! DE heads are better.
De heads improved is red on 1 picture. Yes we ported and polished them, worked with edge of valves(i dont how it in english) and improved combustion chamber. I ll show improved heads photos later.
geometry of head is more important then size of intake and exhaust.
__________________
Mazda MX-3 KLZE 11.9 1/4 mile


 
October 9th, 2009, 12:03 AM   #4
polarexpress17
bibliographically epic
 
 
: Oct 2005
: Hazleton, PA
: 28
: 9,221
wow man that is an awesome find!
__________________
95 mx6 with a 4 lug swap
Built, Not Bought.
No, my username is Not from that stupid movie.
 
October 9th, 2009, 12:43 AM   #5
maac0953
Donating Member
 
 
: Feb 2007
: orlando
: 29
: 1,319
great cause ZE heads suck anyways cause they have thinner retainers and break at hi revv's. its been proved on here and my friends last 2 ze's shot valves threw the pistons.lol

iam sticking to DE's. nuts.
__________________
black 94 probe gt-on 5lbs boost - t3/t4 50trim dynoed at 210hp & 194 tq on fmu
 
October 9th, 2009, 01:32 AM   #6
valant_94gt
Turbo Member
 
: Jun 2002
: norwalk, CA
: 36
: 1,758
very interested, i'd like to know some more in-dept info.

-v
 
October 9th, 2009, 01:45 AM   #7
armydude_ehrler
Search Impaired
 
: Feb 2008
: Clay Center, Ks
: 32
: 51
Hell ya i'd like to have get info on this.
i was just about to get a ZE.
i think i might just wait a little longer.
 
October 9th, 2009, 01:46 AM   #8
Mad
Search Impaired
 
: Jul 2009
: Russia
: 50
:
great cause ZE heads suck anyways cause they have thinner retainers and break at hi revv's. its been proved on here and my friends last 2 ze's shot valves threw the pistons.lol

iam sticking to DE's. nuts.
May be, but i never had problems with retainers. We always use custom
duralumin retainers.

What information do you need?
__________________
Mazda MX-3 KLZE 11.9 1/4 mile



: Automerged Doublepost
 
October 9th, 2009, 09:17 AM   #9
jasons96pgtze
Colt Cams BB Master
 
: Mar 2008
: Kansas
: 3,005
:
great cause ZE heads suck anyways cause they have thinner retainers and break at hi revv's. its been proved on here and my friends last 2 ze's shot valves threw the pistons.lol

iam sticking to DE's. nuts.
Yes ze heads tend to fail because of their retainer and spring design but that issue can easily be fixed by switching to klde springs and retainers or getting interprep springs and using stock de retainers..

Now back on topic.. This is indeed interesting info and im glad you posted it up.. I have a set of de heads that i ported on the intake side to ze specs and then ported and polished on the exhaust side for my 2nd turbo engine im building.. So im glad i went with a good choice.. It just makes me wonder what allows them to flow more over the bigger port ze heads??
__________________
1995 turbocharged pgt with countless mods.. check it out here



1993 turbocharged pgt daily driver check it out here..


 
October 9th, 2009, 09:30 AM   #10
641PGT
Member
 
: Mar 2007
: Hicksville
: 29
: 153
:
Yes ze heads tend to fail because of their retainer and spring design but that issue can easily be fixed by switching to klde springs and retainers or getting interprep springs and using stock de retainers..

Now back on topic.. This is indeed interesting info and im glad you posted it up.. I have a set of de heads that i ported on the intake side to ze specs and then ported and polished on the exhaust side for my 2nd turbo engine im building.. So im glad i went with a good choice.. It just makes me wonder what allows them to flow more over the bigger port ze heads??
Well... I really don't know a ton about THESE engines... but I've been big into motocross my whole life, and have had many engines built... and this fact, I assume, would apply to any sort of engine. It's not always about the size of the port... When we'd have stuff ported (cylinders on two strokes and heads on four strokes), the porters would always stress that you can't just go and make the ports bigger. In some cases, they would actually make ports smaller. Don't think that bigger ports=more power. It's far more complicated than that. It's about the vacuum that the ports can pull, I think, and it's not as easy with huge ports unless the rest of the engine suits those conditions, as well. Make sense?
__________________
95 Rio Red Probe GT MTX:My baby! Black N' Loaded 97 Interior, New paint,GTS stripes,CAI, STS, test pipe- Crashed
91 Graphite Probe GL- The beater probe
 
October 9th, 2009, 09:43 AM   #11
jasons96pgtze
Colt Cams BB Master
 
: Mar 2008
: Kansas
: 3,005
Yes it makes sense thanks for explaining that to me.. However, i feel that my engine would make more power with ze heads over de heads because my whole engine is designed using ze parts.. In high boost applications like mine i dont see how de heads could be better than ze heads but i guess i could be wrong.. This is interesting info for sure tho..
__________________
1995 turbocharged pgt with countless mods.. check it out here



1993 turbocharged pgt daily driver check it out here..


 
October 9th, 2009, 10:04 AM   #12
Tech73
Donating Member
 
 
: Apr 2008
: Shreveport, LA
: 46
: 909
I not going to say I know anything about this but there is one thing I noticed when I had the ZE and DE heads beside each other. The intake ports where the injectors spray are different. The DE's are wider/bigger than the ZE's.
__________________
REVOLUTION IS A BEAST THAT LIVES WITHIN OUR SOULS, A BEAST THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF HUMAN LOVE, BORN FROM THE MOLDS OF TRUTH, REASON, AND JUSTICE. DEHUMANIZED INSTITUTIONS HOLD THE POWER TO DECEIVE THE BEAST, PLACEING IT IN A WORLD WHERE IT'S SENSES DO NOT FUNCTION. IT IS DELIBERATELY BLINDED AND DEAFENED BY A VEIL OF IGNORANCE. UNTIL IT FALLS INTO A DEEP SLUMBER. THIS IS AN ERA RULED BY CORRUPTION, DECEPTION, AND INJUSTINCE. IF THE BEAST IS NOT AWAKEND, THE DESTRUCTION OF HUMANITY IS INEVITABLE.
 
October 9th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #13
jasons96pgtze
Colt Cams BB Master
 
: Mar 2008
: Kansas
: 3,005
:
I not going to say I know anything about this but there is one thing I noticed when I had the ZE and DE heads beside each other. The intake ports where the injectors spray are different. The DE's are wider/bigger than the ZE's.

Maybe this is allowing the fuel to atomize better in the combustion chamber..
__________________
1995 turbocharged pgt with countless mods.. check it out here



1993 turbocharged pgt daily driver check it out here..


 
October 9th, 2009, 10:41 AM   #14
Dutchy
Donating Member
 
 
: Jan 2007
: The Netherlands
: 33
: 3,216
*johnny depp voice* "that's interesting..."
__________________
1994 Probe 16v
1995 Probe 24v
1994 Mustang GT 5.0
1993 Probe 24v
1996 Mustang SVT Cobra
1993 Probe GT
2003 SVT Cobra Terminator
 
October 9th, 2009, 11:56 AM   #15
jestr
Jr. Member
 
: Sep 2009
: orlando
: 35
: 131
ok from what i know smaller ports = more volocity= more air travel= better atomized fuel. if you want you head done right you need a flow meter and time.. i do not think forced induction really needs smaller ports it might restrict to much... keep in mind when its time to do your head have all your parts in mind maybe talk to the shop you are getting them done at for there advice. if not you might be losing to much power over all.. once you are ready to slap a motor together for what ever you want and you are commited to this type of build then get your heads done..

also i believe valve seat angle plays some into this also

: Automerged Doublepost
 
October 9th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #16
RigsPGT
Donating Member
 
 
: Mar 2002
: PT territory and sunny FL
: 40
: 7,093
I've had ported DE heads into ZE specs (portmatched with ZE-IM) on my previous engine and when i swapped to a DE engine, it felt slower. Wish i had that engine when i dynoed at Flyrtle, maybe an extra 5-10whp I'd say!
__________________
Rio Red 94PGT, Turbo T360trim,T3T4E 50 trim,T3T4E57 trim Parted out!
1998 Volvo S70, The Brick
1999 Red Volvo S70 T5 The Red Devil, modded
1998 Black V70R AWD, The Waggo with mods
 
October 9th, 2009, 01:53 PM   #17
Mad
Search Impaired
 
: Jul 2009
: Russia
: 50
It will be very intersting to see the difference between ZE head with big valves and DE head with big valves. I will make them soon.


This is another car and first 2 are with big valves(but haeds are different as ze and de)

It means, that if you plan to improve heads seriously you should make right choice, because the rusult will improve progressive.
__________________
Mazda MX-3 KLZE 11.9 1/4 mile


 
October 9th, 2009, 02:02 PM   #18
jasons96pgtze
Colt Cams BB Master
 
: Mar 2008
: Kansas
: 3,005
I thought we couldnt put much bigger valves in our engines?
__________________
1995 turbocharged pgt with countless mods.. check it out here



1993 turbocharged pgt daily driver check it out here..


 
October 9th, 2009, 02:24 PM   #19
pgtfreak
Born a poor black child
 
 
: Feb 2000
: Warren, MI
: 39
: 28,708
So are these just flowbench numbers? I'm no expert on heads and valvetrain, but i'd think that once you factor in other things like the freer flowing intake manifold, higher compression pistons and more aggressive cams things would start to look differently. Add forced induction and the lower-volume, faster-velocity De heads become a bottle neck compared to the ZE heads.


Though I could be entirely wrong
__________________
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
'16 Chrysler 300S

 
October 9th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #20
short4stuff
On the Cutoff
 
 
: Feb 2006
: Moncton, Nb
: 31
: 5,524
pgtfreak, ze's dont have larger valves...
__________________
94 PGT -T, Used to be quick

94 Black PGT, KLZE, spun bearing, Likely parts car for life
 
October 9th, 2009, 07:47 PM   #21
maac0953
Donating Member
 
 
: Feb 2007
: orlando
: 29
: 1,319
ZE-DE have the same valves get that straight
__________________
black 94 probe gt-on 5lbs boost - t3/t4 50trim dynoed at 210hp & 194 tq on fmu
 
October 9th, 2009, 09:19 PM   #22
pgtfreak
Born a poor black child
 
 
: Feb 2000
: Warren, MI
: 39
: 28,708
Man i must have really been away from the engine longer than I thought. I coulda swore the exhaust valves were suppose to be bigger. Maybe that was proved wrong within the 5 years I didn't bother reading about them?
__________________
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
'16 Chrysler 300S

 
October 10th, 2009, 02:01 AM   #23
Tech73
Donating Member
 
 
: Apr 2008
: Shreveport, LA
: 46
: 909
yea, when I first got on PT I read so much about the valves on the ze where bigger. Then I read where they where the same. Just to make sure I took the valves from the DE and put them in the ZE and yep, they are the same.
__________________
REVOLUTION IS A BEAST THAT LIVES WITHIN OUR SOULS, A BEAST THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF HUMAN LOVE, BORN FROM THE MOLDS OF TRUTH, REASON, AND JUSTICE. DEHUMANIZED INSTITUTIONS HOLD THE POWER TO DECEIVE THE BEAST, PLACEING IT IN A WORLD WHERE IT'S SENSES DO NOT FUNCTION. IT IS DELIBERATELY BLINDED AND DEAFENED BY A VEIL OF IGNORANCE. UNTIL IT FALLS INTO A DEEP SLUMBER. THIS IS AN ERA RULED BY CORRUPTION, DECEPTION, AND INJUSTINCE. IF THE BEAST IS NOT AWAKEND, THE DESTRUCTION OF HUMANITY IS INEVITABLE.

 
October 10th, 2009, 08:04 AM   #24
grimjoker95gt
busy,busy,busy
 
 
: Oct 2008
: working
: 35
: 2,458
i thought it was the intake valves that were bigger on a ze. are the hlas bigger on a ze intake valve, i can't remeber.

i also think that with adding boost the ze heads will flow better. i would really like to see de vs ze max flow charts.

 
October 10th, 2009, 03:34 PM   #25
janz99
Turbo Member
 
: Jul 2003
: Winnipeg
: 1,626
The ze's have 1mm bigger intake valves over the de's. I know this because ive have to replace them. Also the intake HLA's are also bigger. Id also like to see what happens when you take forced induction into account with the heads? I have a hard time believing that the de heads would out flow a de head in a FI application. Yes the velicity might be faster, but it would also create a bottle neck when you start introducing 10, 15, 20 psi through them.

Is there anyway to add positive pressure to your flow bench, and see what the results are then?


Ryan
 

« | »










ProbeTalk.com is not affiliated in any way with the Ford Motor Company, the Mazda Motor Corporation, or any subsidiaries of either company.
All views and opinions expressed on this message board are those of the author and not the owners of ProbeTalk.com.