4G63 Swap?

[j-dogg]

no, triple G

[KLDE Wagon]

There's 2... The creator of the thread has 3 G's heh



Jeremy

[Lt. Dangle]

This is another topic I hate. People bashing 4g63's, and saying that as a whole, they are unreliable, and poorly designed. That's another STFU moment.

The fastest AWD car in the world-4G63 powered. John Sheperd's Talon.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/J...onds_23534.htm

4G63's actually are built well, their closed deck design, makes them VERY strong, as well as their head design. The only real flaw that I see with the motors, are their stock oiling system for the turbo, which can easily be changed.

I have seen MANY make tons of power on stock shortblock, including numerous bottom-mid 11 second 160k+ mile stock shortblock cars, locally.

If 4g63's were so unreliable, and shitty, wouldn't you think they would have stopped putting them in cars, before the Evo Viii and IX? Exactly.

The ONLY, and I repeat ONLY reason that 4g's get a bad rap, is because of incompetent owners, and heresay. They are 20+ year old turbocharged cars, and were some of the first mass produced turbo cars in America, along with the Starion/Conquest, Svo cars, Thunderbird Turbo Coupes, Mustang pace cars, etc...Which ALL have these types of gremlins.

Dsm's are cheap, and relatively easy to mod, making them the perfect candidate for some riceboy flatbill hat wearing famous stars and straps wigger kid fresh out of high school to buy, and destroy. I would venture to say that 90% of the dsm's people are buying for any reasonable price, have been at some point been touched by the hands of an incompetent ricer.

Do you really think shops like Buschur, AMS, Shep racing, TRE, SBR, etc would be open if these motors were such garbage like everyone says?

Hell I have seen a 4g63 (pretty sure it was stock, might have been piston/rods) make over 700whp, and go 200mph on a stock headgasket, and arp headstuds.

Quote Originally Posted by coltboostin
The Colt is down and out, for good. I can not yet release details about the accident, just know that I should not have walked away, at all. The roll cage and helmet saved my life.

http://members.streetfire.net/video/...-run_71109.htm

Since it is no longer able to terrorize the streets, the little secrets can come out.

The car made 708whp and 508 ft lbs@34psi. A quick tune netted me 707whp and 497ft lbs @ 32psi. Low boost (17psi) netted me 459whp and 351 ft lbs. This was all achieved with a quick getto tune that I never took the time to improve on.

Further more, I went 10.5@148.8 at only 30psi on my baby slicks. The most interesting #’s of that run being my 1.9 60ft and 111mph 1/8th mile speed. For reference, Corey’s hatch went 118mph on its way to a 9.9@149. Needless to say, the Colt had MUCH more left in it with traction and more boost, but I had to leave a little more for the race with John Tilley (TT Vette).
This is 100% my daily. If its runnnig, I am driving it. It has been great season so far, b/c with 100's of pulls, and still no breakege.

To many stock parts to list to keep the price tag down, GT42 standard bearing, stock Head Gasket, Stock head studs, Stock mains, Stock trans (with slowboy insert)/axels, stock ignition....And most of the rest being fabbed by me, such as the Exaust, IC, IC plumbing, fuel.....

Thanks to my Sponsors DSMlink and JM Fab, the total $ for the car as it sits is 5200$ (and thats including 400$ for random crap I may have left out)

Any other Q's please feel free to ask. This was at not "all of it" boost. If the pile makes it ot shootout time, it will be turned UP to put up a good show.





I honestly HATE the misinformation that is spread throughout all of these "model specific" forums. Seriously, Educate yourselves. I'm waiting for Mx64life or whoever to chime in, he's a dsm owner and knows his shit as well.

[KLDE Wagon]

I said I hated working on them as their placement of accessories/bolts... That's what I meant by the design aspect. Just like hondas. Why place an alternator, which fails about 3 times in a cars life down under the motor next to the firewall when they place the A/C compressor and power steering pump up top, in front of the motor? Those mechanisms hardly ever fail... It's just poor planning.



Jeremy

P.S. So please, don't tell me to STFU again...

[Lt. Dangle]

I wasn't personally telling you to "STFU", I was just stating that, personally anyone who owns a KL, and thinks 4G's are poorly designed, or shitty motors, must be misinformed, and should stfu before speaking on a topic which they obviously don't know about.

This stems from many comments over the past few years.

Not intended directly at you. Not trying to start shit.

[KLDE Wagon]

Originally Posted by Lt. Dangle

The ONLY, and I repeat ONLY reason that 4g's get a bad rap, is because of incompetent owners, and heresay.

And this too:
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/y.../crankwalk.jpg



Jeremy

P.S. Felt as if it were directed to me, my bad. Thought I'd throw this in though

[Lt. Dangle]

Originally Posted by KLDE Wagon

And this too:
http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/y.../crankwalk.jpg



Jeremy

P.S. Felt as if it were directed to me, my bad. Thought I'd throw this in though

Yes, I will 100% agree with you that 7 bolt motors are horseshit, but really it's even further than just the crankwalk issue. The head is also designed differently, and flows significantly less than a 6 bolt head. (not really sure what year 7 bolt heads, but yeah). The early 7bolts from what I have heard, are hit or miss as far as the crankwalk deal (1gb cars 93-94), and the latter years, 98-99, were revised. I forgot to touch on that in my first post.

Although, locally we did have a 140mph trapping, bottom second 2g Talon, built motor obviously.

[KLDE Wagon]

The 7 bolts had larger intake ports and flowed more I believe, that's how they got away with the smaller turbo, yet more power. Or do I have that backwards??



Jeremy

P.S. If I hadn't have been a Ford guy growing up I can guarantee I would have owned a DSM. There were enough in my town (one guy has owned about 10 and I've worked on 4 of them) so I had plenty of opportunities to pick one up

[95blkpgtklze]

I'm a DSM owner too so heres the skinny. 6 bolts had the larger intake ports but lower compression. The 7bolts have smaller ports but higher compression. a 1st gen head (6 bolt) will out flow a 2nd gen head ( 7bolt) stock for stock but where u make up for in larger volume u lose in velocity. Without the higher compression ur gonna have a lil less torque at the bottom. A ported 2nd gen head is the way to go in that department. 7bolts have a problem with crankwalk unless u get a rare 99. Depending on the kinda power u want this should help u make ur decision on which head to use. I have 3 dsm's and a csm ( 89 dodge colt gt) all with 4g63 power and big turboes. My 97 has roughly 400hp and is my daily when i don't wanna drive the truck. The colt is gonna be the end all lol

[mx64life]

ANY motor can walk, regardless of make/model/etc.

First gen seven bolts RARELY walk, the same with 97.5-99 as they use a split thrust bearing crank. Also very rarely do built seven bolts ever walk as the thrust bearing problem is usually rectified with small modifications. Seems that there WAS quite a bit of mis-information going on in here about the 4g63t, glad that it was mostly cleared up....


95blkpgt is correct. The 2g (95-99) heads use smaller ports to promote higher velocity, this (combined with the higher static CR and smaller turbo) was Mitsubishi's answer to the critics who said the 1g (90-94) set up was 'laggy'. The general consensus is that for street use a port matched (not ported all to hell, basically a blended gasket match and some bowl work/raduising) 2g head is the way to go as it gives better spool characteristics than a 1g head.

As for the idea of a FWD transmission...ummmm why not use the one that came STOCK in GS-T's or TSi's? Not all DSM's were AWD guys...



Oh, food for thought...ALL USDM Evo's are 7 bolt motors. (VIII-IX's respectively)

[slinkyPgT]

glad a dsm'er got in here to help.
i personally dont own a dsm,but have helped build 3.
2 90' tsi's
1 95' gsx with a 6 bolt swap

im currently trying to trade my pgt for a 1g tsi

dsm' are reliable.
its about how you drive it. how you mod it. how you tune it.

if i get away with saying this kool.

Probe's are just as unreliable as DSM's.
-both have tranny issues
-both will blow under to much boost on stock internals
-both have weird random ecu problems,ignition,fuel,etc
like LT said in post 28. its the punk kids fresh out of highschool knowing nothing the hurts the rap of these cars.
we sold our 95 gsx to some 16year old kid and his parent bought it for him cause he said it was what everyone has and it's kool.
he had no idea we took off the big 16g turbo for a stock 14b. he wouldnt know what a 16g looked like

[mx64life]

Except for the whole stock internals part I agree. I've seen wayyy too many 500whp stock bottom end DSM's to think they are weak. The 1g PGT's also have pretty stout bottom ends, the heads just suck. 2g PGT's make decent power on stock internals, especially after you see what they call rods lol!

[maac0953]

i would like to own a 2nd gen gsx one day.but i just dont like how the doors on these cars are so heavy. its as heavy as my moms truck door, how much do the weigh?

[mx64life]

The doors? Or the actual cars themselves?

[slinkyPgT]

lol.. the cars are ~3600 n up irrc... a 2g gsx prolly 3700
no where near light

[mx64life]

They aren't quite THAT heavy. The stock curb weights for a 1g AWD with fluids is usually right around 3100lbs, 2g's are a little heavier (~3250lbs) with the GS-T Spyders being the heavy weights at roughly 3400lbs from what I've seen. These numbers are FULL weight.

I'll check and see what my mostly full weight GSX and GVR-4 are at when the tracks open back up around here....I'd say 3050 for the GSX and 3300 for the VR4 without me in them.