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Ughh!!!! No start, and racing in six days!

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  • #16
    Timing belt still there?
    Also when u checked the ckp sensor connector did you bother to twist the pins just slightly for better connection. Also are u running timing belt covers, maybe the pulleys chewed up the wire.
    1993 Mercury tRacer :Vitara & mFactory: In progress 2020
    1994 Mercury TrAcer Wagon : '02 SPI swap : sold
    2014 Factory Five 818s: sold
    2000 Lotus esprit v8TT : 1st v8 on MS3x, ls1 coils,h20 injection
    1997 Nissan 200sx 1.6L : 35-39mpg the daily

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    • #17
      Originally posted by mac1 View Post
      Timing belt still there?
      Also when u checked the ckp sensor connector did you bother to twist the pins just slightly for better connection. Also are u running timing belt covers, maybe the pulleys chewed up the wire.
      Thanks for the reply mac.

      Yes, I did twist the pins, and the wires are for the CPS are fine in front of the engine -- I tested them all the way to the ECU and they are getting a signal. Timing belt is good too.

      I'll be getting a new ECU soon. Not in as much of a hurry now!
      95 Probe GT -- 24 Hours of LeMons race car!
      Our teams Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

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      • #18
        I don't know how I didn't see this thread before. Is it possible the front timing pulley sheared off the pin that makes it spin the front cams. Engine will turn over, timing will look fine, it will crank and crank with no start no matter what parts you change and it's throwing a crank sensor code. You should be able to tell by taking off the disty cap and cranking the engine, if it doesn't spin, there you go.

        If that is the case let me know, I have both front cams sitting here doing nothing that I'm trying not to mix up with 4 other cams sitting here doing nothing. All DE cams. You probably will need a pulley too, which I can lend you til you find another for me. The front cams worked fine... I sheared the pin off one of my rear cams. I have a crank pulley too. Just message me if you need a part, my DE is in pieces.
        Last edited by BLUEnoEQ; October 26, 2015, 09:34 PM.
        Probe out for Harambe
        94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdM

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        • #19
          Thanks for the offer Blue.

          Follow-up:

          I replaced the ECU, and after five tries, the engine fired up. The CPS code was gone, but replaced by codes for the fuel pressure solenoid, and the temp sensor! I turned the engine off and started it a few more times, and it fired up every time. Just for kicks, I put the old ECU back in with the engine warm, and it still started and ran fine! WTF!!!!

          So........ I left the old ECU in. I went out to the garage the next day, and it would not fire up. Hmmm. The CPS code was back, but the FPRS and temp sensor codes were gone. I put the new ECU in and it fired up, checked codes and CPS gone, other two codes came back.

          I replaced the temp sensor ( it was cracked ) and that took care of the fan problem, replaced the FPRS with one I had lying around, and that code was cleared. No codes now.

          The car seems to still take a little longer to fire than before. I was gonna put the old ECU back in and try to start the car when the engine was cold, but didn't want to tempt fate! So it appears that the old ECU couldn't start a cold engine that was sitting overnight, but would start and run the engine when it was warm. Weird. I should probably test the cold start thing again to prove this theory. Someday.........

          Bummer is that the problem could still be there. I was told by a fellow LeMons racer that ECU's don't like to be cycled off and on a lot, which mine is, as I have a kill switch that kills all power. In his set-up, he keeps power going to the ECU even when the kill switch is off. Has anyone else heard that the ECU's don't like being turned off and on?
          Last edited by majo8; November 11, 2015, 05:14 PM.
          95 Probe GT -- 24 Hours of LeMons race car!
          Our teams Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

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          • #20
            I've been watching with some interest, and glad to see that the issue is somewhat resolved. The temp sensor you replaced, this was the water temp sensor? Is that correct?

            I've got a Longacre kill switch on my car as well, but it's a 4 pole switch and not the standard 2 pole. There is power that goes through the key/ignition switch and then to the ECU........this is where I put kill switch in series. I'm running a 96 ECU and wiring harness and have not had issues with losing an ECU. And that's with 2 different engines, 3 races, and 1 all day practice session.

            I'm not saying I have the best solution, but it's worked for me. I can't say what the wire number is off the top of my head, and besides your results may vary depending the year model. But, I've been really cautious if I was welding on the car. I've gone so far as to remove the ECU from the car until the welding is finished.

            PM me if you have any questions.........or suggestions.
            Last edited by RACERSNUT; November 14, 2015, 09:59 PM.

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            • #21
              There's a thread from 2005 where someone had to take their ecu inside and warm it up and then their probe would start, sounded like his problem was similar but worse. Figure some sort of cold solder joint inside the ecu.
              Probe out for Harambe
              94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdM

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              • #22
                I think the cold solder joint issue you describe is a great idea. Hadn't thought of that one.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RACERSNUT View Post
                  I've been watching with some interest, and glad to see that the issue is somewhat resolved. The temp sensor you replaced, this was the water temp sensor? Is that correct?
                  Yes, the water temp sensor.

                  I have a four pole switch too, which I hooked up to the battery on one pole, and a wire that goes to the distributor on the other. Works good.

                  I may look into powering the ECU straight from the battery in the future.
                  95 Probe GT -- 24 Hours of LeMons race car!
                  Our teams Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

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                  • #24
                    Well, it took over two years but I finally figured out a solution to the problem!

                    The car had been starting and running with no problems since November '15, and last week as I was prepping the car for a Lemons race this weekend ( Barber Motorsports Park, Alabama ), the car took a long time to fire. Hmmmm. The next day it took longer, the next day longer, etc. Just cranking and cranking and a reluctance to fire. Yesterday, it wouldn't fire at all, just like it did back in Oct '15. F#ck!ng great -- the race is five days away and I'm back to dealing with this BS. Again.

                    I was getting the CPS code again when it was hard to start. After it finally would start I'd let it run a while, turn it off, disconnect the battery and read the codes again and the CPS code would be gone. Also, it would fire right up after the car was warm ( maybe slightly longer than usual ), and would so for 3-4 hours after, but in the morning when I'd try to start it it'd take forever again. Kept the battery on a trickle charger too.

                    I called up a buddy and fellow Lemons racer yesterday and he suggested a few things to check. He had experienced a hard start issue in his Mitsu/Chrysler race car a few years ago, and was having a hell of a time diagnosing it, much like I had and was now having again. He eventually relocated the battery, which had been in the trunk, back under the hood and it fixed his hard start issues. I figured I'd give that a try, so I put the battery back in it's OEM spot ( except no battery tray -- threw it out! ) and hooked it up to the original wiring and BAM, it fired up immediately. Whew. What a relief.

                    His reasoning was ( he works on electrical and fuel systems for a living ) that various relays and sensors ( CPS ) weren't getting the voltage they needed to send the proper info to the ECM to start the car. Too much voltage loss with the long cable to the trunk. I'm going to mount the battery in the passenger footwell, where the cable will be just a few feet longer than if I used the stock underhood location and ran the cable to the interior kill-switch. I suppose I could double-up the on the cable and leave it in the trunk, but relocation to the footwell should work fine.

                    I can't believe I didn't think of this before that missed race back in Oct '15. Mounting the battery in the trunk was the ONLY change I made before that race, and it never came to mind. Live and learn I guess.

                    Off to Alabama in three days. Wish us luck!
                    Last edited by majo8; January 29, 2018, 03:06 PM.
                    95 Probe GT -- 24 Hours of LeMons race car!
                    Our teams Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

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                    • #25
                      What gauge battery cable did you use to the trunk ?
                      1994 Project PGT

                      M62 In Progress...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Brizzy View Post
                        What gauge battery cable did you use to the trunk ?
                        1 -- which should be big enough for the wire length I'm running.
                        95 Probe GT -- 24 Hours of LeMons race car!
                        Our teams Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

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                        • #27
                          I ran 0 to my trunk and as long as the battery is good and all the connections are clean and tight everything works and charges correctly. I did upgrade to a higher cranking amp battery but have since used a few different boat batteries to start it here and there when I need to move it since the probes battery is 10 years old and no good. Battery was relocated to the trunk long ago and haven't had any problems with it there.
                          1995 Probe GT - N2O Ingested, CM 3, fidanza, headers, exhaust, CAI, MS, kenwood sound
                          2010 Ram 1500 4x4 - Daily Driver
                          99 Mustang V6 stock inherited not sure what the plan is

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                          • #28
                            Smallest you can go is 4ga
                            1994 Project PGT

                            M62 In Progress...

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                            • #29
                              the race is five days away and I'm back to dealing with this BS. Again.


                              hah. you've got a rare talent for creating drama.

                              a high quality source for battery wire that most people don't think of is an old arc welder. large gauge, high quality copper with VERY fine strands and rated for duty cycles in hours.

                              you've just got to have a an old welder you don't have a problem scrapping out.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bob k. mando View Post
                                the race is five days away and I'm back to dealing with this BS. Again.


                                hah. you've got a rare talent for creating drama.

                                a high quality source for battery wire that most people don't think of is an old arc welder. large gauge, high quality copper with VERY fine strands and rated for duty cycles in hours.

                                you've just got to have a an old welder you don't have a problem scrapping out.
                                I wish I didn't have that talent!

                                Car ran great the whole race. No black flags, quick driver changes, and 14.5 hours and 930 miles later we won class B! Finished 9th overall too.

                                There was a mobile dyno ( Mustang-style ) on site so I figured "what the hell". Best run was 109hp and 115tq! We embarrassed a lot of higher hp cars last weekend.
                                95 Probe GT -- 24 Hours of LeMons race car!
                                Our teams Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

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