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  • Little help with MS

    I've got a few little issues I need help figuring out how to fix.

    Cold Start:
    When I start the car it starts fine, its just that it revs really high and then slowly comes down as it warms up.

    Hunting Idle:
    This is new, it only started happening the past 4 times I took the car out. Once the cars warms up, the idle goes up and down (like a bad TPS on a stock car). Literally, nothing has been touched recently to cause this, so I'm clueless on this one. Figured maybe its a setting that needs adjustment. but I'm not sure why it would start out of the blue. When this happened I attempted to adjust fuel table but it didn't change anything. Even tried Autotune and that didn't help.

    RPM read differently (stock tach and TunerStudio)
    This I noticed today. The Tunerstudio tach reads about 700rpm higher than the stock PGT tach.

    Info about the car:
    -94 PGT
    -MS2 v3.0
    -Colipacks
    -Stock IAC (plugged in and coolant lines are hooked up like normal)
    -GM IAT instead of VAF

    I took a datalog, but I'm not sure how to post it for anyone to download it. I looked around but haven't been able to find any instructions on how or where to post/upload it.

    Edit:
    Nevermind, I found a file hosting site
    Here's the Datalog - http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...41658436013394
    Last edited by Greg 94 PGT; November 18, 2017, 03:06 PM.
    '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
    '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

  • #2
    The tach issue is the stock tach being off (most peoples are the same), for cold start look at crank to run taper time and IAC initial values. For hunting idle restore your old VE settings as they were before as you could have made the issue worse, im on my mobile but ill check the log when i get a chance and let you know what i think it might be.
    Supercharged - 94' PGT: ZE, MS2, W/M Injection, weight reduced, manual steering because weekend race car! mods and pics thread
    Turbocharged - 06' WRX: 3" exh, ECUTEK ROM, MRT intercooler, VF34 pic
    Nitrous Oxide - 79' Yamaha QT50 'Yamahopper' 70cc, MLM pipe, VM18 carb, dual stage reeds etc. pic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by stoker100 View Post
      The tach issue is the stock tach being off (most peoples are the same), for cold start look at crank to run taper time and IAC initial values. For hunting idle restore your old VE settings as they were before as you could have made the issue worse, im on my mobile but ill check the log when i get a chance and let you know what i think it might be.
      That's what is odd, it started out of the blue, so I played with changing the fuel values, but nothing helped, so I already put them back to where they were but it still does it. That's why I'm not sure why it started in the first place. Could the stock TPS be the issue? Maybe its going bad? With the MS can I still adjust the stock TPS using the fan method (stock pcm still controls the fans), or would adjusting the TPS not do anything since the MS has its own TPS configuration method.
      '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
      '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

      Comment


      • #4
        hey, where did my post go?

        Anyways, Greg, you are going into overrun mode over and over, making it seem like your car is trying to catch it's idle, but it's not.

        Your MAP threshold value for fuel overrun is way too high. Mine is somewhere around 20kpa or so, it looks like yours is at 27kpa. So your log shows that around 2000rpm, it cuts fuel just trying to drop rpm to idle, and then when overrun is off, it adds fuel, and rpms jump slightly, but then it gets back into overrun, and it does it over and over and over.
        it has nothing to do with your fuel table. Change those overrun values so that it will only cut fuel when you're decelerating in gear or at higher rpm, and you'll be just fine.
        1996 Boysenberry Probe GT MTXtreme
        2014 Fusion SE MTXtreme
        2005 Mountaineer Premier

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by spada View Post
          hey, where did my post go?

          Anyways, Greg, you are going into overrun mode over and over, making it seem like your car is trying to catch it's idle, but it's not.

          Your MAP threshold value for fuel overrun is way too high. Mine is somewhere around 20kpa or so, it looks like yours is at 27kpa. So your log shows that around 2000rpm, it cuts fuel just trying to drop rpm to idle, and then when overrun is off, it adds fuel, and rpms jump slightly, but then it gets back into overrun, and it does it over and over and over.
          it has nothing to do with your fuel table. Change those overrun values so that it will only cut fuel when you're decelerating in gear or at higher rpm, and you'll be just fine.
          Haha, your post is in another thread. I was looking through other posts and I was thinking is this in response to my thread? But it wasn't here, so I figured the other guy was named Greg too. Put the beer down and focus!

          Thanks though, I'll look into that too.

          I'm past the overwhelmed stage of having MS, now I'm just in the confused stage


          Update
          Okay idles nice and smooth now, once warmed up, just high (1800rpms)

          Good guess, my MAP threshold value was 28kpa
          Last edited by Greg 94 PGT; December 12, 2017, 04:53 PM. Reason: Update
          '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
          '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

          Comment


          • #6
            Start by adjusting your idle screw. 1800 is way too high.
            Also, upload your MSQ file. Let me know what version your hardware and software is so i can open it correctly.

            But now its time to get your idle pwm values. Seriosuly, it takes a long time to tune idle and cold startups and warmups.
            However, it takes me only a couple 15 minute drives to vet the whole map dialed in using a wideband.

            ---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

            If i get idling at 800rpm, you owe me a 65mm tb.
            Lol, jk.
            Back to the beer.
            1996 Boysenberry Probe GT MTXtreme
            2014 Fusion SE MTXtreme
            2005 Mountaineer Premier

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by spada View Post
              Start by adjusting your idle screw. 1800 is way too high.
              Also, upload your MSQ file. Let me know what version your hardware and software is so i can open it correctly.

              But now its time to get your idle pwm values. Seriosuly, it takes a long time to tune idle and cold startups and warmups.
              However, it takes me only a couple 15 minute drives to vet the whole map dialed in using a wideband.

              ---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

              If i get idling at 800rpm, you owe me a 65mm tb.
              Lol, jk.
              Back to the beer.
              I have the idle screw on the TB turned all the way down already.

              I did the whole pwm idle valve thing a while back and it helped, but I can't say with 100% certainty that I did it correctly I'm very tempted to say it has to do with the IAC either itself or its calibration. But I'm open to trying the pwm values again and anything else you suggest.

              I'll agree to that 65mm TB deal, "if" I have anymore. I have no idea what parts/pieces I have left
              '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
              '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

              Comment


              • #8
                Here is my MSQ - Current Tune

                -MS2 v3.0

                - software version - if you mean firmware version I don't know. Where would I find that?

                I think I need to adjust my IAC pwm open and closed duty cycles. But I can't find anything on how to do the Idle Valve Test or if there's another way.
                '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

                Comment


                • #9
                  dont worry about the idle test, just reduce the minimum value.
                  Supercharged - 94' PGT: ZE, MS2, W/M Injection, weight reduced, manual steering because weekend race car! mods and pics thread
                  Turbocharged - 06' WRX: 3" exh, ECUTEK ROM, MRT intercooler, VF34 pic
                  Nitrous Oxide - 79' Yamaha QT50 'Yamahopper' 70cc, MLM pipe, VM18 carb, dual stage reeds etc. pic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    yeah, wow, your minimum values are way too high, and your idle valve frequency seems wrong. Isn't it supposed to be 200hz?

                    a few minutes of playing around with your values, and you're idle will be lower.
                    1996 Boysenberry Probe GT MTXtreme
                    2014 Fusion SE MTXtreme
                    2005 Mountaineer Premier

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Alright, I'm out of town for a couple weeks, but when I get back I'll work on that and update you guys on any changes.

                      Thanks guys
                      '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                      '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just to throw it out there, ive run into an issue in the past where mine started idling high once in a while and eventually stayed high. Turned out it was some pieces of carbon had fouled up the IAC valve and causing the plunger to stick. Cleaned it out and its been great for the past 5 years.
                        Jim K.
                        :89LX: Gone but not forgotten:96 PGT:(ze twin turbo) Its not purple dammit! Its BOYSENBERRY! :89PGT: New project :03 KLZE Protege5: Daily When I go for a drive, I leave life behind. Friends, work, everything. Its just me, the car, and a twisty road. The exhilaration of being on the edge of catastrophe is something that I will never be able to give up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WhiteDart View Post
                          Just to throw it out there, ive run into an issue in the past where mine started idling high once in a while and eventually stayed high. Turned out it was some pieces of carbon had fouled up the IAC valve and causing the plunger to stick. Cleaned it out and its been great for the past 5 years.
                          Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

                          What did you clean it with? Brake cleaner?
                          '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                          '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just used regular carburetor cleaner. I also hooked up some wires to the solenoid and arced it a bunch of times with 12v to get it to bounce around. Dont leave power hooked up too long or it could burn up.
                            Jim K.
                            :89LX: Gone but not forgotten:96 PGT:(ze twin turbo) Its not purple dammit! Its BOYSENBERRY! :89PGT: New project :03 KLZE Protege5: Daily When I go for a drive, I leave life behind. Friends, work, everything. Its just me, the car, and a twisty road. The exhilaration of being on the edge of catastrophe is something that I will never be able to give up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stoker100 View Post
                              dont worry about the idle test, just reduce the minimum value.
                              Okay, I'm back in town and ready to start playing with these IAC values
                              '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                              '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

                              Comment

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