Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

$20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

    drill a hole and use a bolt/nut to secure it to the body.

    from what i can tell, joe used 18AWG wire for the connections. it's the same size as the stock wiring.
    ProbeTalk is BACK! Once again, it's what you use the Internet for!

    Let's get DANGEROUS!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

      18 for all of them is fine if they're not too long.

      Actually on mine, I made the Red and White wires are 16AWG 'cause they handle current and it was handy. The Green one, being a trigger, is 18AWG.

      Be sure to have a good ground on that module too!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

        Originally posted by LAGT
        I've called five Autozones and a Pep Boys and not one of them know what this bracket is.
        I've showed them pictures and still nothing. Is there a part number for it? Did you guys buy it at Home Depot? Did you buy a general bracket and ddrill holes? Please tell me exactly where I can buy this bracket.

        Thanks
        I made mine from a piece of sheet metal. Or, like dmark101 sez, just drill a hole in the body and bolt it down. Just be sure its grounded good.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

          I think that is a homemade bracket, probably 1/8" or 1/16" sheet metal
          Marc M.
          Black '95 PGT with mods 177.4 whp/159.6 wtq (probably way less now as the car has been partially de-modded)
          2000 BMW M-Roadster

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

            Originally posted by LAGT
            Now all I have to do is learn how to solder
            Soldering simple wires together is easy. Just get a 30 watt soldering iron from Radio Shack or your local auto parts store and some solder (I use silver solder since that's what I have laying around from my computer repair days). The key is to heat the item to be soldered not the solder itself. For example, place the soldering iron on the opposite side of the object you want to solder when the object is hot enough touch the solder on the other side of the object. If it is hot enough, it will melt the solder which will then be drawn into the wires by capillary action and complete the connection. Remove the iron from the object and it will solidify in <1 second. Tape up the site that you soldered. If you planned ahead, you got some heat shrink tubing on the wires then use a hair dryer to shrink the tubing to fit the soldered area.

            Back on topic...

            Here's the external tower wiring diagram: http://home.comcast.net/~mmunoz70/z/Probe-Ext-HEI-Coil.gif

            Diagram courtesy of Joe Bialy
            Marc M.
            Black '95 PGT with mods 177.4 whp/159.6 wtq (probably way less now as the car has been partially de-modded)
            2000 BMW M-Roadster

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

              Delco #D1906 from any GM dealer anywhere in the world.

              These should be the same too:
              KEM #E200
              Standard #LX301
              Motorcraft #DYG-216

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                Just a tip for those guys trying to locate this in Canada, call Canadian Tire asking for Niehoff DR400 and they will come up with the Wells module :-)...if you ask for Wells directly they can't find it - some problem in the computer system.

                BTW, I have ***not*** tried this yet!!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                  Originally posted by mmganga
                  Just a tip for those guys trying to locate this in Canada, call Canadian Tire asking for Niehoff DR400 and they will come up with the Wells module :-)...if you ask for Wells directly they can't find it - some problem in the computer system.

                  BTW, I have ***not*** tried this yet!!!
                  Yes the DR400 is the one they gave me. I looked up the application before cause alot of these guys at crappy tire dont know their head from their arse and thats the real problem with those computers . If you ask for the 79 Caprice 350 as Joe suggested you'll get the right one. I asked for one out of an 82 chevette and got the same one.

                  Ive been looking at coils but I'm unsure what to get, any suggestions what I should look for?
                  93 gt
                  95 tbird sc
                  2010 focus ses

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                    Hey guys, can I get some 'help' regarding this install? I had the disty problem a while ago and then I put in a MSD. I think my MSD is crapped out now as it doesn't give any spark.

                    So I'm trying to put in this module (Wells) on top of a MSD install. The stock coil is working fine!!!

                    From what I understand the MSD box works as follows:

                    - it doesn't tap in the ECU feed
                    - the black/pink wire which gives +12 V from the ignition powers up the MSD box
                    - the yellow/blue from the 3 pin harness goes to the tach feedback on the distributor (center connector), and at the same time feeds back into the MSD box as a pickup sensor
                    - the MSD box gives a +/- signal to the stock coil using an orange/black wire which goes into the distributor coil.


                    Now, this HEI unit is slightly different -- I need to install this using the MSD harness which I mentioned above - from what I gather:

                    - this unit taps into the ECU wire (first wire blue/orange from the 6 pin harness) (G-connection)
                    - the wire feeding the power (black/pink from the 3 pin harness) goes to feed the HEI unit (B-connection)
                    - now I see the C-connection should tap into the coil primary wire, which is yellow/green - questions:

                    1) how does it give +/- to the coil?
                    2) is there any tach feedback in the HEI case?
                    3) can I install this HEI module with this replaced harness, or should I go back to the original connection?


                    THANKS!!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                      Originally posted by mmganga
                      I think I'm starting to understand what's going on...man I've got my head around this!!!

                      Anyway, I am pretty sure now that it's supposed to be like this:

                      - the black/pink wire supplies +12 V to the stock coil as well, that's why it's supposed to be TAPPED into, not disconnected as the MSD says!!!
                      - then the yellow/green wire is the negative input!!! and that's why it comes from the HEI. I guess the HEI works on negative trigger????

                      Any ideas?

                      THANKS!!!
                      I don't know how the MSD harness ties into the Probe, but it sounds to me like it adding a lot of confusion to what should be a simple project. It almost sounds like your car is firing off the wrong side of the ECU's trigger signal and is majorly retarded all the time.

                      Why don't you just go back to the basic Probe wiring and add this HEI thing from there? Its only a few wires.

                      You're right about the B/P wire, it supplies +12V to both the coil and the HEI.

                      The Y/G is the negative coil 'input'. Pin 'C' of the HEI takes that wire to ground to charge the coil with current. When pin 'C' of the HEI opens up, or switches off, you'll get a spark, so your wording is semi-correct here, HEI works on negative of the coil.

                      The Bl/O wire is really the negative trigger, when pin 'G' has voltage on it, the coil is charging (pin 'C' is at ground). As soon as pin 'G' goes to ground, or low, pin 'C' opens up and the coil fires. So yeah, its a negative trigger in this sense.

                      I could write more, but I really gotta run. But like I suggested, just go back to the basic Probe wiring and add HEI on top of that.

                      Did you take oput the liitle meatal strap inside the the disty?

                      Gotta run,

                      Joe

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                        Thanks Joe!!! It makes sense and thanks for all the detailed explanations. One problem I have is that my original harness seems to be gone (I've had this MSD for 2 years almost and now it's crapped on me). So it would be easier to install with the MSD adapter.

                        If you would be so kind as to read this post which I asked specifically about how the MSD works:

                        http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701083793

                        And have a look at the image there (same as what I currently have in the 94 disty):

                        http://www.gilstarr.d2g.com/All_Pics...cs/MSD_057.jpg

                        The problem is that the pin which originally connects to the tach (the third) is disconnected in this harness installation. However it's really strange since the MSD itself supposedly picks up the tach output from the WHITE wire in the picture. The yellow/blue is also connected to this white wire (same node), and my tach has worked fine!!!

                        Would it be possible to install it like this or should I try to find and use an old harness adapter to go back to the original install?

                        THANKS!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                          Originally posted by mmganga
                          Thanks Joe!!! It makes sense and thanks for all the detailed explanations. One problem I have is that my original harness seems to be gone (I've had this MSD for 2 years almost and now it's crapped on me). So it would be easier to install with the MSD adapter.

                          If you would be so kind as to read this post which I asked specifically about how the MSD works:

                          http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread.php?t=1701083793

                          And have a look at the image there (same as what I currently have in the 94 disty):

                          http://www.gilstarr.d2g.com/All_Pics...cs/MSD_057.jpg

                          The problem is that the pin which originally connects to the tach (the third) is disconnected in this harness installation. However it's really strange since the MSD itself supposedly picks up the tach output from the WHITE wire in the picture. The yellow/blue is also connected to this white wire (same node), and my tach has worked fine!!!

                          Would it be possible to install it like this or should I try to find and use an old harness adapter to go back to the original install?

                          THANKS!!!
                          Piece of cake!! Those are good images.

                          MSD red is +12V just like you said. Feeds the coil and pin 'B'.

                          MSD white trigger wire is not needed. This is the output of the old ignitor. If the old ignitor is dead, there won't be any output. Maybe that's why so many MSD installs are troublesome. A dead ignitor won't make a good trigger.

                          MSD black will go to pin 'C' of the HEI. This is the coil (-).

                          To get your tach back, you'll need to buy a 1,000 ohm resistor at Radio Shack. One end will go to the old original Probe tach wire (yellow/blue). The other end will be tapped onto the black MSD wire which goes to pin 'C'.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                            Originally posted by mmganga
                            Joe, one more question since you make everything so clear!!!

                            What's the idea of the ignition 'pick-up' or 'trigger' point? I don't see how there can be so many points where different things can pick up from. Just for example, this MSD was connecting to the old ignitor and using that as a pickup point. The HEI you propose (and which I am sure will bring back the tach once I put that 1K resistor in there) uses the first wire of the ECU, am I right?

                            Also the tach pickup can come from the post on the distributor (the third connector which is only in the original harness, not in the MSD), or the center ignitor, or the negative of the HEI (with the resistor).

                            All these options are slightly confusing....


                            THANKS!!!
                            The 'pick up' or trigger point only comes from the ECU. This is the blue/orange wire. Unfortunately, this signal from the ECU is not very robust so it can not do anything that requires power, like firing the ignition coil directly. The Ignitor is a booster that puts some balls behind this signal so it can switch coils on and off. The ignitor also acts as isolator too- so that major arcs and sparks and inductive kick backs don't feed back through to the ECU and kill it. I think that's why it has two transistors in it instead of one.

                            The MSD's white wire is the 'points' wire. In a points type ignition, its good to have a little bit of current flowing through them when they switch. The MSD box provides that current but unfortunately, the ECU's Bl/O wire isn't robust enough to handle that current directly.

                            There's also a second problem here- probably even more important too- the ECU's trigger doesn't switch exactly like the MSD's white wire would like it to. The MSD sparks when the white wire goes open, or rises up to +12V. The ECU Bl/O trigger is the opposite- it wants a spark when it goes to 0V. The ignitor convieniently provides exactly the same signal as the points did on a points type ignition system and feeds the MSD exactly what it wants. The only fundamental problem is that if your ignitor is dead this won't work- and most people put in the MSD in the first place because their ignitor died.

                            As far as tach signals go, the Probe's coil has a built in 1,000 ohm isolating resistor to feed the Y/Bl tach from the coil (-) terminal. That tach feed is the center wire on the three pin plug, or the end terminal on the coil itself (the three terminal coil adapter plug thingie crosses those two wires internally for some stupid reason). So, any way you can get a 1,000 ohm resistor between the tach and coil (-) will work. Whether its the internal Probe coil one or a separate one, it won't matter. Just get 1,000 ohms between Y/Bl and coil (-).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                              Originally posted by Shrep
                              Okay...now...I am confused...

                              There has been a lot of mention on this thread about the MSD being used to replace dead Ignitors...I was under the impression that it still utilizes the ignitor...seeing as it connects to the coil trigger inside.
                              Well, according to the last pictures of an MSD harness posted here by mmganga, it DOES use the old ignitor. But, some of you add your own 3055 transistor to replace that ignitor. Hopefully, the little metal link is removed to completely eliminate the dead ignitor.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: $20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

                                Originally posted by mmganga
                                What I don't understand in turn is how the tach signal can be obtained from more than one location ;-)
                                The only place the tach signal comes from is the (-) side of the coil, through the resistor.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X