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  • #91
    Originally posted by Joe Bialy
    If what you say is correct, than you're right, one wire won't mean anything. However, I think you're grounds are confused. The trigger ground is through pin 5, but the power ground for the output driver is probably through the distributor body, not much different than how the HEI grounds itself through its mounting hole. The ignitor will pass around 4 or 5 amps as it charges the coil, I don't think Mazda would run that much current through that dinky wire on pin 5. It is also a noisy circuit too as the coil dumps and recharges.

    The reason HEI modules are nice is because they do not load the input at all. They are really made to work with high-Z reluctors, consequently the PCM is less loaded than it originally was. An opto coupler will consume far more current from the PCM than the HEI module does or even the stock ingitor unless its buffered.

    Search for Motorola's "MC3444" IC.That is the heart of the HEI, and in fact the data sheet will tell you enough to build your own module. Sad that the chip is obsolete and not commonly available AFAIK. With this chip between the PCM and the driver though, I doubt if you'll see any thunderbolts going back to the PCM.

    IGBT is used in the stock module just like it is used in any inductive ignition, high breakdown voltage>350V and low on resistance. Some ignition drivers don't even need the Zener snubber. You will note that the stock ignitor also has a small signal transistor driving that IGBT. THAT is what protects the PCM when the ignitor dies a violent death. Contrary to Julian Bradbury's comment on his otherwise superior website about it not being needed, it is very much needed- to protect that PCM.

    I would spend time adapting the '7 pin' HEI module to this car if I was going to do anything new here.

    My Probe's been gone for a few months now. Some guy in Lansing bought it, but I'm sure its still running like a top though. I had to make room for the XJR I'm picking up next week. Also known as a "four door Ferrari"
    Now, I'm confused. You are talking about schematic on http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy...obemx/p_p4.htm

    It looks like I have new design with IGBT and not one on above schematic. It would be helpfull if someone can take picture of old design (after opening metal cover that is sealed in plastic) and new Mitsubishi design with IGBT that I have. They are completely different.

    Well, hmm, then maybe we can change Title of this tread to:

    $2.7 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

    Cheap, cheap, cheap ...

    Well part number is:

    Fairchild Semiconductor ISL9V3040P3
    TO-220AB, SINGLE, N-CH, 400V, 300MJ ECOSPARK IGNITION IGBT
    Datasheet: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/IS/ISL9V3040P3.pdf
    http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/IS%2FISL9V3040P3.html
    Price: $1.96 !!!!

    But they are available in small quantites from http://www.newark.com for $2.700

    http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComme...jsp?id=82C6135

    Beat me now if you can.

    It looks like exact replacement 430V, 17A at 110 C TO-220AB at least for mine new design. It would be helpfull if someone can take pictures of dissasembled ignitor so we can come finnaly with some realy cheap fix.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by kuki
      Beat me now if you can.
      I didn't know this was a contest

      The object of this exercise for me, anyhow, was to provide a simple soluition to an expensive problem that doesn't require years of rocket science experience to figure out. Sure, a $2.70 transistor will work well, but how many people here on PT even know what a TO220 anything is, much less how to solder it in correctly etc, etc. Look back through the 5 pages of posts this generated and see how confusing W-G-B-C and ground are to those less fortunate than you and me. Don't expect those same people to solder now.

      All the technology in the world is pretty much a curiosty at best if someonedoesn't understand it. That's what serparates the geeks from the jocks from the well rounded average normal guys who are far in the majority here.

      Comment


      • #93
        Yea, I have no clue what I'm doing with electronic and I don't really have a desire too.

        However I really want to hook up my HEI and external coil tomorrow providing my disty cap is here. I'm very good at figuring things out and if I know what wires do what, then I can follow the diagram and get it done. I just need to find a wiring diagram of the three prong plug on the 95disty.

        I do have a few questions though if anyone can answer...

        1) On the 6 pin connector I just splice into that wire, but keep it hooked up right?
        2) On the 3 pin, I just splice into the correct wires, leaving them connected to the harness, but unplug the harness from the disty correct?
        3) The wires that are switched on the 95 disty plug are the two yellow wires on the 3 prong plug right? So I should just follow the steps for the 93/94 however when it comes to those two wires, I hook them up in reverse?
        4) Since I am hooking up an external coil, I can leave the ignitor intact and just unplug the 3 prong harness right?

        Thanks. I know this has been covered, at least most of it but I wanted to ask it using my own words just to make sure I had all this down.
        Stephen Wilds #303
        PhotoPOC
        BMW 328i
        BMW Z4

        Comment


        • #94
          I think you cut the wire on pin 6. the rest seems OK to me.

          Comment


          • #95
            Ok, I have a question about the wiring for this using an external MSD coil.

            I already made a disty cap with the terminal sticking up out of the top for the coil, but when I wired everything together, the car wouldn't start, just cranked. The HEI module got very hot too when I had the key in "ignition on" mode.

            I'm using a spare distributor I have which has a defunct ignitor. I cut off that strap and removed the entire 3-plug connector from the distributor, including the entire OEM ignition coil. All that is inside the distributor is the main module and the two metal rotor things.


            Just to double check my wiring, could you guys look at this diagram and tell me if its accurate?

            http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/att...tid=4428&stc=1

            In that pic it shows that I cut off that 3-plug clip from the harness, but the connections are going to their respective wires on my install.

            Also, I have a question about the 6-plug wire that you have to use for terminal "G" on the HEI. Do you have to cut the wire off of the engine harness plug and route that wire to the HEI "G" terminal? Or do you simple "tap into" the engine harness wire signal with a splice?

            I spliced that wire when I installed mine. Just making sure.

            Thanks guys!
            Last edited by Gro Harlem; August 6, 2004, 01:22 AM.
            Wil (admin iMazda.com) 93' MX-ZE
            Mods: ZE w/31 cams & curved-neck mani, 67mm t/b, obx headers w/2.5" straight-thru, 3" custom CAI,
            Mazdaspeed mounts, Tochigi Fuji Sangyo 2-way LSD, ACT clutch, Noble Green Metallic paint, E-spec headlights,
            OEM skirts, 16" SubZeros on Azenis, Tokico w/Eibach's, Mazdaspeed TTL & Bushing Kit, New OEM Leather seats & SE interior

            READ THE HEADER FAQ OR DO A SEARCH

            Comment


            • #96
              Actually, the '95 disty is the same as the '96-'97 disty
              Marc M.
              Black '95 PGT with mods 177.4 whp/159.6 wtq (probably way less now as the car has been partially de-modded)
              2000 BMW M-Roadster

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Gro Harlem
                Ok, I have a question about the wiring for this using an external MSD coil.

                I already made a disty cap with the terminal sticking up out of the top for the coil, but when I wired everything together, the car wouldn't start, just cranked. The HEI module got very hot too when I had the key in "ignition on" mode.

                I'm using a spare distributor I have which has a defunct ignitor. I cut off that strap and removed the entire 3-plug connector from the distributor, including the entire OEM ignition coil. All that is inside the distributor is the main module and the two metal rotor things.


                Just to double check my wiring, could you guys look at this diagram and tell me if its accurate?

                http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/att...tid=4428&stc=1

                In that pic it shows that I cut off that 3-plug clip from the harness, but the connections are going to their respective wires on my install.

                Also, I have a question about the 6-plug wire that you have to use for terminal "G" on the HEI. Do you have to cut the wire off of the engine harness plug and route that wire to the HEI "G" terminal? Or do you simple "tap into" the engine harness wire signal with a splice?

                I spliced that wire when I installed mine. Just making sure.

                Thanks guys!
                Pull the connection off of pin "G" and see if the module still gets hot. If so, you have some problem with pin 6. Measure the voltage at pin 6, it should be almost zero, with a short 'blip' each time it wants to make a spark. If its not zero, you have ECM trouble, or are on the wrong wire (hopefully) or the HEI unit is bad.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Question: is this a modification you do when your stock ignitor is broken or is it a mod you do anyways, because it gives better sparks? Ive read the first 3 pages and its a bit unclear what you accomplish.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by doc Jones
                    Question: is this a modification you do when your stock ignitor is broken or is it a mod you do anyways, because it gives better sparks? Ive read the first 3 pages and its a bit unclear what you accomplish.
                    Both. If you have the older prone to failure ignitor why wait till it runs out of sparks in traffic before you fix it?

                    With an aftermarket coil, you will have better sparks.

                    Comment


                    • Ok, I have a 97 GT and I have wired up this entire mod properly and I am still getting no spark. Most likely this is because I still have not disconnected the old igniter. The couple of responses to this question were unclear. Which pin should actually be disconnected and can you get away with just cutting the wire on the ecu side as opposed to ripping the pin out of the distributor side?

                      Comment


                      • OK I was a little confused on the subject myself cuz I misunderstood joe on the +12 dizzy feed and all. I have a 95 Gt so I pulled some diagrams off of ALLDATA at school. I'm on a friend's computer so I'll try make these as clear as possible

                        This is for a 1995 Probe GT

                        Six-pin
                        (1)BK/R = Ground
                        (2)R/BK = PCM power relay input
                        (3) --NOT USED--
                        (4)BL/PK = Ground Signal(Cylinder Identification)
                        (5)BK/R = Ground
                        (6)BL/O = Distributor Ignition Input

                        Three-pin
                        (1)BK/P = Power(hot in start or run)
                        (2)Y/GN = Tachometer Signal(Ignition Ground)
                        (3)Y/BL = Tachometer output

                        To Clarify this statement: #1 on either harness is The side of the harness closest to the radiator looking into the harness staring towards the passenger side of the car. #6(six pin) and #3(3 pin) are the opposites ends of their respective harnesses closest to the firewall.

                        I apologize for the ugliness maybe someone could create a diagram with this info.

                        Since there isn't a ground strap for the ICM(Ignitor) on 95+ maybe by snipping the BK/R ground wire(very first wire nearest to radiator on six pin) you would kill the voltage to the ICM probably BUT the wire next to it which is 5 volt reference from the PCM would still be needed. #4 on six pin is CMP output so don't screw with it. #5 is another ground and then #6 is the Disty input which is the one you want anyways. Hope this clarifies things.

                        Comment


                        • Well I got it figured out. I think. I don't even know if the HEI unit is firing, I can only guess it is since I cut a wire off the connector, and the ONLY wire on a '95 that you cut is the blue/orange wire on the 6 pin connector which, on that connector, is the wire closest to the firewall. You solder on a wire to the end of it coming from the ECU (leave a stub on the connector-side of the wire alone) and run that down to the "G" pole on the HEI unit.

                          Also, you don't have to get rid of any ground strap. I took apart my disty totally, it's COMPLETELY different than a '93 or '94 distributor, and I think I saw what would be a connector for the ground strap, but it looks as though it goes up to the wire that you cut for a '95+.

                          And on the 3-pin connector, it's the same as a '93/'94. Tap into the Yellow/green wire and that goes to "C" on the HEI, then tap into the black/pink wire which goes to "B." That's it.

                          I'm going to drive it home, see if there's any difference, and post the pictures showing more detail of what I did. Plus, I'll feel the HEI to see if it's warm at all.
                          2007 Audi RS4
                          Past: '05 Audi S4, '88 626 turbo, '93 red PGT, '94 white PGT, '95 Purple PGT, '95 Red PGT, '00 MGT, '07 Mazdaspeed3
                          The mom's car: White on black GTS, 5 speed, tint.

                          Comment


                          • guys i found in europe a company that makes clone ignition module.
                            I also found a copy of the delco d1906 what we can use.

                            This is the link http://www.hueco.de/assets/PDF/MM_Katalog04.pdf

                            go to page 40 and look for the delco partnumber d1906.
                            The manufacturer number is 138021.

                            but my question is what connections are the same on the copy as on this drawing http://home.comcast.net/~mmunoz70/z/...t-HEI-Coil.gif

                            As you can see going from the left up to right under the connection codes are different.
                            on the drawing is

                            W ground C
                            G B

                            and the connection codes of the manufacturer is

                            G- Kl31/ground Kl1
                            G+ Kl15


                            So are these connections the same or not ????

                            If it is i can order this part.
                            __________________________________________________ __________________________________
                            In 6 days god created the world but on the 7th day he created the best thing ever the ford probe 2

                            Comment


                            • Can't say for sure, but I'll bet its a one of one swap:
                              W=G-
                              G=G+
                              C=Kl1
                              B=Kl15

                              Comment


                              • I went though 3 of the modules at Auto zone before one worked right. Yours could be bad take it out and have them test it, they do it for free! And if its bad its most likely under warrenty or $14
                                94Gt Ze Rio red,afpr,borla, sts,EIBACHS
                                ,gray->black int, mx6 leather,
                                need rio red sideskirts yesterday
                                Ze isnt rice its from JAP its a rice eater
                                My car is finally in the garage again

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