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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Performance Discussion of Performance topics for V6 2.5L

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Old October 10th, 2017, 10:00 AM   #1
rod bender
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A mystery code.

My 95 GT will not start. I get a code 3 and a 41. OBD 1 of course. My Hanes book says 3 is cam sensor. The book does not list a 41. Are there other codes listed somewhere?Also when I back probe the red with black line wire that provides current to the distributor that powers the cam position sensor there is no current. I notice this wire also goes to about a half dozen other places. Surely I will not have to go from this point to every other sensor and position that has the red with black. Is there not a simpler way to diagnose this issue? Maybe the 41 code will provide a solution.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 07:54 PM   #2
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check out this page: SCPOC - Ford Probe Diagnostic Codes - 2nd Generation (OBD-I - 1993 to 1995)

Code 03 - Cylinder Identification (CID) Sensor

Code 41 - Variable Resonance Induction System (VRIS) Solenoid #1/High Speed Inlet Air (HSIA) Solenoid
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:08 PM   #3
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The wire for the CPS goes up and down near the dipstick. Do you have timing covers on? Mine aren't on, so my CPS wire is zip tied to the dipstick tube but still very close to moving parts. It's one place to check.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #4
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Thanks for the response dmark and Blue. I will be sure to check that area.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #5
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My Haynes book says the cam position sensor is in the distributor. However, I do not seem to be getting any current to the distributor on the red and black line wire. Also, does the virs which gives a code 41 have anything to do with the cam sensor? What if I just run battery current to the red/black wire connection at the distributor?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #6
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No, do not hookup 12v to anything like that. That is a good way to make sure something is broken. What wire is the red/black wire, what is it supposed to do?

You should be able to read the wire out. I.e. disconnect at both ends ends and use a meter to read whether the wire is open somewhere. If one end is in the car and the other under the hood, you ground the wire at one end to the chassis (the outer part of the cigarette lighter works as a ground) and touch the red meter lead to the other end of the wire and the black lead to the chassis completing the circuit. If it reads 0 or a few ohms the wire is good. O.L. or really high resistance the wire could be broken. Also test if the wire reads to ground without your added wire. If it does then you could have a short.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 02:41 PM   #7
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The problem is that there are about 10 different places the black with red wire goes to beside the oxygen sensor connection at the distributor according to the Haynes manual.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #8
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Almost every time I pulled codes in the past 41 was always on the list whenever my 95 PGT wouldn't start. At one point the car was such a headache it took a swapped fuel rail and trying 3 different eBay distributors before the thing would start again. I couldn't get it to fire on the hei mod at the time either. If you have access to a different distributor you could try to swap it out.

Before purchasing one do try to follow those wires back from the disty to see if any wires are damaged. If for some reason the CID Cam position sensor is defective on the 95 I am pretty sure it will not start at all.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 08:52 PM   #9
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Very interesting. Since I am not getting current to the distributor it looks like I need to check out the wiring. Since a 41 code suggests vris not working how could that keep it from starting?
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Old October 20th, 2017, 10:07 PM   #10
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VRIS will not prevent startup. Is the cam position sensor powered by the ecu or is the cam sensor inducing a current to send to the ecu? I always thought it was the latter. In which case the ecu isn't going to send voltage to the distributor.

I'm sure there is someone here that knows positively. When you swing a piece of metal through a magnetic field you induce a current. The ecu just reads that and compares to other sensor timing. That is how a crank sensor works, cam sensors, ABS sensors. If I am right you should see a voltage from the disty while cranking. Not sure how many volts, probably not much though.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 02:39 AM   #11
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+1 on the distributor. Biggest headache the pgt ever caused me. Multiple bad refurbished units. It took me about 4 before I got one that worked.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 09:32 AM   #12
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As stated above I'm sure it will not send voltage to the distributor until it gets the pick up signal. The ignition in part of the disty and it will not fire until the timing is established.

Like c-man said why does the refurbished distributors such a pain? Is there a known good source from anywhere specific? It did take me 3 before restarting.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 12:26 PM   #13
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They patch the heat cracked plastic and try to re-use the coils and ignitors. They probably pass some sort of weak quality check and make it back out into the world.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 02:12 PM   #14
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Check your ignition wires. Mine were hacked into by a previous owner when they installed an after market alarm / shock sensor. I put multiple distys in mine too just to find a bad connection on my ignition wires under the dash.
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 02:34 PM   #15
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I am not looking for the distributor to send current, just to see why no current is going to the input for the cam sensor in the dist.
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 03:41 PM   #16
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I don't believe power goes to the cam sensor.

Cam position sensor (hall effect) -> pcm -> power to distributor -> power to spark plugs

Without pickup from the CID power will not be sent to the distributor. The pcm needs to establish timing first before it will fire. The cam sensor is basically the same as the crank position sensor being basically a pickup magnet kind of deal. I could be wrong but I do not believe it receives power.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 02:49 PM   #17
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If you are not getting 12V to the R/BK (red wire, black stripe) wire on your distributor plug, pin 2 (2nd wire from the radiator side) then your cam sensor will not be sending a signal to your ECU.
If your cam sensor isn't sending a signal, then your ECU doesn't know where the engine's top dead center position is, and it won't fire fuel or spark...actually it might try to fire the injectors in batch mode, but it won't fire a spark, because it might end up firing at the top of the exhaust stroke instead of compression stroke.

probably a problem with the wiring or the connector, or fuse or something. Get that fixed and your car will run.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 04:59 PM   #18
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According to my Haynes manual's wiring diagram, that red with black stripe wire goes to many locations besides the distributor. I hate the thought of tracking every place it goes to. Isn't there a short cut?
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Old October 26th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #19
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If it receives 12v there is it a constant 12v? So in theory it could be rewired with a new 12v source to test to see if it will start again?

The other things that the wire feeds to on the diagram are those things functioning correctly or no?
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Old October 26th, 2017, 08:24 PM   #20
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I already told you how to read the wire out from the ECU through whatever to the distributor. In post number 6. The only thing I'd add to what I wrote is disconnect the battery before sticking any grounded wires to any pins.
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Old October 28th, 2017, 07:32 PM   #21
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no current

Blue. I do not understand. The red with black wire goes from the distributor to the fuse block. But on the way it has junctions going to the PCM, both oxygen sensors, egr valve, prc solenoid, purge solenoid and idle air control. If there is an open in one of these circuits will that not affect current going to the cam position sensor in the distributor? Thanks
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Old October 28th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #22
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Starting fresh with a schematic in front of me.
Looking at a schematic for 93-95 Probe/MX6/626 2.5l engine schematics in a Chilton's manual the R/B wire going into the distributor, comes from a main relay which closes when the key is in run or start. It does provide 12v around the engine bay.

When you turn the key to on you should have 12 volts on the R/Bwire, if you don't, then either
1. the relay isn't switching
2. a fuse, or a circuit breaker, or in this case a 30 amp fusible link is open OR
3. there is a broken wire

You can check for 12V at the fuel rail (either one.) with the key on you should have 12v on the W/R wire to either rail they all get 12v from that relay and the fuel rail is probably the easiest to reach and check with a meter.
If you have 12v then the relay is good at the fuel rail and no 12v at the distributor, the fusible link is also good and it's probably a broken wire.
If you don't have 12v there then the relay could be stuck or sticking. You can try seeing if it clicks when the key is turned on (will require a friend to turn the key,) you can try tapping the relay (not with a hammer or hard enough to break it,) If it clicks from tapping then it's a stuck or sticking relay. Replace and all should be good.

If the relay doesn't click by itself or with some tapping pull the relay out.

There should 2 spots at the relay that have 12v
1 should be 12v hot at all times
the other should have 12v only when the key is turned to the on position

Check for both, if you only have one, see if the one you have goes on and off with the key or if it always stays on. The key on 12v fuse is labeled engine fuse and is a 10A fuse should be a red blade fuse
If it's the always hot 12v that is missing that is a 30 amp fusible link. I'm not sure where that is we can get to that if that's the issue. The book says the relay gets 30 amps from a fusible link on a W/G wire

If both 12v are there and the relay doesn't click over check for a ground on one of the terminals the relay plugs into. If you have 1 ground and 2 12v and the relay isn't clicking the relay is bad

The code you have 03 for a cam sensor probably has nothing to do with the R/B wire. So either you have that code because the engine isn't on or spinning and the missing 12v on r/b wire is the problem OR the R/B wire has nothing to do with it and your cam sensor is the problem. If you have 12v on R/B with the key on put everything back together and find a good 95+ distributor. You can check the B/W at the distributor as well that one is also key on 12v. Turn the key off before connecting or disconnecting anything with the battery connected and back on if you're checking for voltage. Make sure the meter probe is actually making contact with the pin or terminal you are checking

Open to anyone to see if I missed anything critical here.
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Last edited by BLUEnoEQ; October 28th, 2017 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old October 29th, 2017, 09:22 PM   #23
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Thanks for all the information. Next day off I will work on it.
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