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  • #16
    Originally posted by spada View Post
    yeah, wow, your minimum values are way too high, and your idle valve frequency seems wrong. Isn't it supposed to be 200hz?

    a few minutes of playing around with your values, and you're idle will be lower.
    I have no idea what the stock IAC hz value is.

    But in PWM Idle Settings I just tried to adjust the "Valve Frequency 30.5hz * This Setting" box to 200hz.

    But it gave me an error message saying "Valve Frequency 30.5hz * This Setting Value of 200 is too high. Must be below 15hz"

    Currently its at 15hz

    Can anyone confirm what this should be set to for a stock iac (well ZE IAC if it matters)
    '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
    '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

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    • #17
      Results:

      In "Closed Loop Idle PID Settings" I did the following

      Min Duty For PID % = 3.1
      RPM With Valve Closed = 200
      RPM With Valve Open = 3000


      Questions:
      -Every time I hit "Burn", the idle raises and hangs for 3-4 seconds. Is that normal?

      -When I blip the throttle to 3k-3500rpms, the idle hangs at 2300 rpms for 6-7 seconds, then takes about 5 seconds to get down to 1300rpms +/- (<-- whatever its idle'ing at) - Edit: this lessened after changing PWM Idle Settings > Valve Frequency to 8 Was that the right thing to adjust? Is this setting right? (tried going to 4, but heard a buzzing, so I changed it back to 8

      -After I blip the throttle I see the IAC position gauge goes to 128 steps (as the idle hangs at 2300) and slowly reduces to 8 steps as the idle falls. Should I be addressing something else to fix this response time?

      -Should I be adjusting the "PID Controller Gains"? Current settings are:
      Proportional Gain - 150
      Integral Gain - 50
      Derivative Gain - 20

      With the above settings I'm idle'ing @ 1410 rpms

      Not really sure what else I should be adjusting.

      Can you guys see anything else in my tune that's way off?
      '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
      '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

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      • #18
        Valve frequency is way off.
        You have to set the value to 50. This makes the valve frequency 200Hz since, since that is 10,000 divided by 50. Wait, i'm used to megasquirt 1, so whatever gets you to have a 200Hz IAC frequency, do that.

        You shouldn't have your IAC do anything at all until it gets down to maybe 1,100 rpm.
        1996 Boysenberry Probe GT MTXtreme
        2014 Fusion SE MTXtreme
        2005 Mountaineer Premier

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        • #19
          Originally posted by spada View Post
          Valve frequency is way off.
          You have to set the value to 50. This makes the valve frequency 200Hz since, since that is 10,000 divided by 50. Wait, i'm used to megasquirt 1, so whatever gets you to have a 200Hz IAC frequency, do that.

          You shouldn't have your IAC do anything at all until it gets down to maybe 1,100 rpm.
          Okay, I'll work on that this weekend. I hear buzzing when the key is on, but the car is off. I figured its the IAC and I know that shouldn't be doing anything at that time.

          As a little update (with a little back story), I bought a lot of parts from Jordan's (Shaodome) car, including his janz99 top feed fuel rail and some injectors. I asked him at the time what size the injectors were, so when I put them on I'll know what to set MS up for, he texted my "they're 550".

          So when I installed the rail and injectors a few months ago, I punched in "550cc" injectors into MS. Well, I was suspicious on the the mysterious fuel smell I seemed to get after parking the car in the garage, so I figured I'd research the injectors a little.

          Siemens 3172 injectors seem to have a lot of various information about them from different for sale posts and threads online from 550 cc to 600cc, but I found a retailer that I felt safer in believing. They were listing them as 55lb (not 550cc), 55lb turns out to be 577cc +/-. I'm guessing either Jordans phone auto-corrected or I caught him while he was busy and he just mistyped 550 instead of 55. Either way, that part is sorted out now (and the fuel smell in the garage is gone).

          Because once I punched those numbers into the MS the idle felt much better and lowered itself down to a reasonable level, right now I'm roughly 1200rpms, but I'll look into the advice you just listed and see what happens.
          '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
          '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

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          • #20
            Originally posted by spada View Post
            Valve frequency is way off.
            You have to set the value to 50. This makes the valve frequency 200Hz since, since that is 10,000 divided by 50. Wait, i'm used to megasquirt 1, so whatever gets you to have a 200Hz IAC frequency, do that.

            You shouldn't have your IAC do anything at all until it gets down to maybe 1,100 rpm.
            Okay, so I think I found the right section for this. I went to "PWM Idle Settings" then found a line that said "Valve Frequency 30.5hz * this setting", and it was set to 8

            So if I'm interpreting this right, its saying the setting was at 244hz (30.5 x 8), so I did some calculating and I went with 7 which would bring it to 213.5. I was considering 6, but that was 183 and figured that was further away from 200.

            I tried to go 6.5 but it just rounds it up to 7.

            Should I go to 6, so its under 200, or do I just get as close as I can?

            Also, did I even do the right thing?

            Nothing seems to have changed though. Still have the idle around 1350 and it hangs when I let off the throttle for 5-6 seconds (around 2.3k). It also shoots up and hangs the same way every time I burn a change in TS, not sure if that's normal or not

            Btw, I unplugged the IAC to see what happens and it dropped the idle about 150rpms to 1190

            Thoughts/suggestions?

            Edit:
            Also what kind of numbers am I even shooting for on the Idle open Duty and Idle closed duty %? Because I've been playing with those, but I'm clueless on what I'm doing and nothing I do seems to affect the idle.

            Today I started with an open duty % of 50 and a closed of 19.9. I am at 14.5 open and 3.5 closed right now and nothing is different

            Or should the Open Duty % be lower than the Closed Duty % numbers?
            Last edited by Greg 94 PGT; February 2, 2018, 04:07 PM.
            '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
            '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

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            • #21
              it will probably just change the tone of the IAC changing the frequency, i have found when doing it going down in frequency means your initial table needs to be reduced slightly too (if you have one i cant remember). short answer, it shouldnt change anything especially the high idle but its good to have it set correctly.

              IAC shut should REALLY drop the RPM's otherwise the IAC cannot control idle. If your idle screw isnt all the way out (turn it down) then you have a VAC leak IMO. Id reset those other open/closed duty settings first and have a look at a vac leak!
              Supercharged - 94' PGT: ZE, MS2, W/M Injection, weight reduced, manual steering because weekend race car! mods and pics thread
              Turbocharged - 06' WRX: 3" exh, ECUTEK ROM, MRT intercooler, VF34 pic
              Nitrous Oxide - 79' Yamaha QT50 'Yamahopper' 70cc, MLM pipe, VM18 carb, dual stage reeds etc. pic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by stoker100 View Post
                it will probably just change the tone of the IAC changing the frequency, i have found when doing it going down in frequency means your initial table needs to be reduced slightly too (if you have one i cant remember). short answer, it shouldnt change anything especially the high idle but its good to have it set correctly.
                Yeah I got a humming sound coming from the air filter after changing the frequency, thought it was weird.


                Originally posted by stoker100 View Post
                IAC shut should REALLY drop the RPM's otherwise the IAC cannot control idle. If your idle screw isnt all the way out (turn it down) then you have a VAC leak IMO. Id reset those other open/closed duty settings first and have a look at a vac leak!
                Right, but what do I "reset" them to?? I have no clue what the initial settings should be. What numbers are good for a stock IAC?

                Btw, Idle screw is tightened all the way down.

                I figured before I start looking for a vacuum leak I should make sure my IAC settings are right.

                Otherwise, I'm spending time looking for something that may not even exist. I really feel its something with my settings, but I don't have any idea what the settings should be, not even a starting point, or as I mentioned if my IAC Open Duty % should be higher or lower than my IAC Closed Duty %

                If I knew what that information was I could at least adjust those things accordingly and determine if it gets any better
                '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

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                • #23
                  Reset the settings to what you had them at before you started having this problem (with the exception of the idle valve frequency. My understanding is when the IAC is unplugged its air flow path is closed leaving the minimum amount of air possible to flow through the TB with the exception of the cold start flow path and idle screw. If you have the coolant hoses connected to the TB then the cold start path should work fine (its a wax that melts and pushes a rod, pretty reliable), with the air screw all the way in little to no air will flow through the TB at all meaning you shouldn't be at 11XX rpm but more like 400rpm.
                  Supercharged - 94' PGT: ZE, MS2, W/M Injection, weight reduced, manual steering because weekend race car! mods and pics thread
                  Turbocharged - 06' WRX: 3" exh, ECUTEK ROM, MRT intercooler, VF34 pic
                  Nitrous Oxide - 79' Yamaha QT50 'Yamahopper' 70cc, MLM pipe, VM18 carb, dual stage reeds etc. pic

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                  • #24
                    I had another look, your idle timing is at 23deg, pull it back to about 17deg and see if that helps. Also take another NEW log and upload it along with the tune. looking at the old log you are hitting decel fuel cut, reduce the min vac to <24kpa. I still think its a vac leak but cant tell much more without a new log.
                    Supercharged - 94' PGT: ZE, MS2, W/M Injection, weight reduced, manual steering because weekend race car! mods and pics thread
                    Turbocharged - 06' WRX: 3" exh, ECUTEK ROM, MRT intercooler, VF34 pic
                    Nitrous Oxide - 79' Yamaha QT50 'Yamahopper' 70cc, MLM pipe, VM18 carb, dual stage reeds etc. pic

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      After I posted my last post, I thought about it and decided to start from scratch with my original file. It's funny you mentioned it too. I figured I was chasing my tail after figuring out my injector issue and having made so many changes before that I figured it would be better to start from scratch with the proper #'s there first.

                      Then added in the changes you guys had mentioned in this thread (and my injectors sizing).

                      I was able to get a much better idle and the car idles around 1075 right now.

                      But I will address those suggestions you just made too.

                      As of now we took it out over the weekend and all in all it drove great, I had "autotune" going to smooth things out along the way.

                      Thanks, I'll update things once I have a chance to get in the car again
                      '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                      '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by stoker100 View Post
                        I had another look, your idle timing is at 23deg, pull it back to about 17deg and see if that helps. Also take another NEW log and upload it along with the tune. looking at the old log you are hitting decel fuel cut, reduce the min vac to <24kpa. I still think its a vac leak but cant tell much more without a new log.
                        Okay here's the current tune file

                        Here's the log from tonight

                        Not sure where I would reduce the "min vac to less than 24kpa" could you elaborate on that little
                        '94 Red PGT Gone, but Project PGT has begun
                        '04 Black SRT-4 Um, no it's not stock. But "It's just a Neon, right?" 379whp @ 20lbs *Sold*

                        Comment

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