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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Discussion of Maint Issues for V6

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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:01 AM   #1
Venchman
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Unhappy HEI, External Coil, and No Start

So I was driving along the hwy and the car lost power and died randomly. I had the car towed back. I thought the hei module was bad so I replaced that, still no start. I thought the coil was bad and I replaced that, still no start. Is it possible that my timing jumped on the hwy and that caused the car to shut off? Seems plausible but not likely. You guys have any ideas why the car won't start otherwise. Thanks for the help!

-V
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:12 AM   #2
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So I was driving along the hwy and the car lost power and died randomly. I had the car towed back. I thought the hei module was bad so I replaced that, still no start. I thought the coil was bad and I replaced that, still no start. Is it possible that my timing jumped on the hwy and that caused the car to shut off? Seems plausible but not likely. You guys have any ideas why the car won't start otherwise. Thanks for the help!

-V
Hey Venchei!

So do you have spark or not? If you do not have spark -it can still be the crank/cam sensor within the Distributor. Have you tried swapping the entire distributor? It is possible to be jumped cam timing if your hydraulic tensioner is not in prime shape and if it jumped more than one tooth. You should be able to determine that if you have spark or not. You can still get spark with jumped timing.

If no spark -there is also the possibility of a bad ECU. Have you double checked all of your HEI wiring connections?
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:25 AM   #3
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Hey Mike,

Yeh I remember the last time I had a no start it was the distributor crank/cam sensor but the car wasn't on the hwy running when that happened. Connections look solid, I'll check those and the timing. Might be that crank/cam sensor again
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:54 AM   #4
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Hey Mike,

Yeh I remember the last time I had a no start it was the distributor crank/cam sensor but the car wasn't on the hwy running when that happened. Connections look solid, I'll check those and the timing. Might be that crank/cam sensor again
Check for spark first before you do anything else. That helps to narrow it down!
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Old March 17th, 2017, 12:20 PM   #5
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I pulled the first spark plug and it has spark. On the first turn it sounded like it was about to start but continued to turn over.

Time to check the timing.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 02:28 PM   #6
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I have had 2 different Probes, both shortly after buying them, just up and die on me when I was driving out of the blue. Ended up being the timing belt both times. Good luck and keep us updated.
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Old March 18th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #7
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So I've found out that the timing is correct and I have spark... I'm thinking my fuel pump or ecu is bad. What do you guys think? Here are some links:

Spark Verification

Right Bank

Left Bank

Crank
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Old March 18th, 2017, 04:17 PM   #8
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Well when you turn the key on, you should hear the fuel pump prime. Do you?

With a bad ecu I think you'll get a code zero
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Old March 18th, 2017, 05:11 PM   #9
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So I've found out that the timing is correct and I have spark... I'm thinking my fuel pump or ecu is bad. What do you guys think? Here are some links:

Spark Verification

Right Bank

Left Bank

Crank
Next thing to do is to crank the car. Shut if off and immediately go to the fuel rail and crack one of the 17mm banjo bolts to see if you get some spray.

P.S. Don't do this in your garage with a kerosene space heater going
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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:02 PM   #10
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P.S. Don't do this in your garage with a kerosene space heater going
Hahaha yeh that was an interesting experience... It's parked under a car port outside a friends house lol. Battery is dead so whenever someone returns I'll get a jump, start the car and see what happens but when I cracked the fuel rail barely any gas leaked out.

Update: No fuel coming to the fuel rail after cranking the car multiple times; moreover, I heard nothing from the fuel pump upon turning the key to the start position. So we may have solved the mystery gang!
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Old March 20th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #11
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You should be able to jump your diagnostic box if its a 93-95 to force the fuel pump to run. not sure about 96-97
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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #12
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You should be able to jump your diagnostic box if its a 93-95 to force the fuel pump to run. not sure about 96-97
Replaced the pump, still no action. Actually just tried this and I hear the relay clicking but the fuel lines are dry, so the new pump is not running, maybe I have a wire short but the gauge on the instrument panel is reading. Going to drop the tank again and check the connections. Am I missing anything?

Should've tested it while it was down... Yay, opportunities to learn!
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Old March 20th, 2017, 10:20 PM   #13
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After taking the tank down. I recorded this. Tested the 'faulty' pump and turns out it works too. So definitely a short but I have no idea how to trace it and fix this problem.

Furthermore, I removed the pigtail and ran the same current through it to the pump and found that the pigtail worked just fine; this is truly a mystery. Also found that the enertia switch wiring was modified with two fuse lines as placeholders (they weren't blown). I have to be missing something. Not sure what though.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 10:46 PM   #14
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Time to hardwire a manual switch. Lol
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Old March 21st, 2017, 02:16 PM   #15
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Does the fuel cutoff light come on the dash when cranking? If so the inertia switch or whatever is left of it is bad.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 03:00 PM   #16
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I would be looking more into the inertia switch as well. Could just bypass it to verify that is the issue
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Old March 21st, 2017, 03:00 PM   #17
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Just because the relay clicks doesn't necessarily mean its good. Might want to try another relay if you have a spare or if your daring you can try jumping it at the relay to see if that kicks the pump on. If that is still a no go, well I guess I would start taking interior trim off and folding the carpet up and tracing all the wires and making sure they aren't damaged physically.

Have you used a multimeter to test voltage at the pump?

Could also take a multimeter, put it in continuity mode/diode mode/voltage drop mode whatever you want to call it. The mode that beeps when you touch the multimeter probes together . touch whatever you have open on the ground wire coming into the pump and touch the other multimeter probe to bare metal. if it doesn't beep your ground is broke somewhere.

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Old March 21st, 2017, 06:00 PM   #18
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Does the fuel cutoff light come on the dash when cranking? If so the inertia switch or whatever is left of it is bad.
Fuel cutout doesn't come on.

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I would be looking more into the inertia switch as well. Could just bypass it to verify that is the issue
When I pulled back the trim I saw that a prior owner bypassed the inertia switch. So that's not it.

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Just because the relay clicks doesn't necessarily mean its good. Might want to try another relay if you have a spare or if your daring you can try jumping it at the relay to see if that kicks the pump on. If that is still a no go, well I guess I would start taking interior trim off and folding the carpet up and tracing all the wires and making sure they aren't damaged physically.

Have you used a multimeter to test voltage at the pump?

Could also take a multimeter, put it in continuity mode/diode mode/voltage drop mode whatever you want to call it. The mode that beeps when you touch the multimeter probes together . touch whatever you have open on the ground wire coming into the pump and touch the other multimeter probe to bare metal. if it doesn't beep your ground is broke somewhere.
I have some spare relays laying around. I'll test that. I ran a twelve volt wire and ground from the aftermarket amp in the trunk and the car started just fine. Never used a multimeter. So I'd have to buy one and try that.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 12:06 AM   #19
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To me it seems that your crank position sensor is bad, i had similar issue, fuel pump worked fine when running it in diagonstics box. The thing is your ECU wont start the fuel pump if it gets no signal from crank position sensor.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 09:21 AM   #20
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To me it seems that your crank position sensor is bad, i had similar issue, fuel pump worked fine when running it in diagonstics box. The thing is your ECU wont start the fuel pump if it gets no signal from crank position sensor.
I wouldn't get spark with a bad crank sensor, correct? I am getting spark and the motor starts (after rigging the pump to work).

New Issues: now the sputters and backfire/misfire/popping at around 3000 rpm; it completely losses power at that point. Would that be the coil failing? Here is a video of it. Seems like everything is going wrong at a really bad time.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 09:48 AM   #21
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I wouldn't get spark with a bad crank sensor, correct? I am getting spark and the motor starts (after rigging the pump to work).

New Issues: now the sputters and backfire/misfire/popping at around 3000 rpm; it completely losses power at that point. Would that be the coil failing? Here is a video of it. Seems like everything is going wrong at a really bad time.
When you dropped the tank and swapped the pump -how did the filter sock look? The 3000 RPM problem can be a bad ECU. Maybe you just have a bad ECU altogether. Got a spare to try?
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 10:02 AM   #22
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When you dropped the tank and swapped the pump -how did the filter sock look? The 3000 RPM problem can be a bad ECU. Maybe you just have a bad ECU altogether. Got a spare to try?
The sock/strainer was brown. I changed the pump and the sock/strainer. So they are both new. I should have a spare somewhere, need to look through some things. Do you have a multimeter I could borrow?

Update: changed the ecu and same stumbling problem. I'm going to make another video of it.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 06:34 PM   #23
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Have you verified that you are getting the proper fuel pressure to the rail? Logic says new pump should have correct pressure but just a possibility.
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Old March 23rd, 2017, 05:16 PM   #24
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Have you verified that you are getting the proper fuel pressure to the rail? Logic says new pump should have correct pressure but just a possibility.
I don't have a compression testing tool <- If that's what it's called lol....
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Old March 24th, 2017, 12:57 PM   #25
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No, your not testing for compression right now, just fuel pressure. You need something like this. http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-in...ter-62623.html
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