Cars final days, need help...

[Level 9]

My battery is in the trunk as well, I did not check the voltage but would a long crank that sets that code prematurely make the car run like crap or possibly maybe it was set then once it picked it up it fired. 3 was not in the original codes pulled yesterday when it was taking forever to fire.

I will double check the battery voltage but it should be good and I know the connections are good since I believe I have a voltage drain somewhere so I disconnect the battery every time I let it sit for awhile. Batteries remain on maintainers.

[majo8]

Do me and yourself a favor -- temporarily hook the battery back up in it's original location. Once I did my car started up immediately after not wanting to fire at all. I'm not the only one to experience a hard start/no start scenario due to a trunk mounted battery. My friend who finally diagnosed my problem ( an auto engineer in Detroit ) said that various sensors may not be getting enough voltage to relay proper info to the ECU. I even measured voltage all the way along the chain, and it read fine, so this can be misleading. I kept my battery on a trickle charger too.

Weird, I know.

If nothing else, you're removing this as a source of your problem.

[Level 9]

The wiring to put it back to stock I would have to do a bit of work to do that. I will if it comes down to it but my battery has been in the truck for 11-12 years now with no prior battery related problems. Really only problems I have had with the car was a stuck injector, stock fuel pump, and a couple distributors. Power steering cooling loop leaked before too but other than that car had been pretty solid. I'll trace down the crank sensor and it's wiring and make sure the pick up is clean and do from there. It's strange code 3 came on but I don't suspect the disty since its running lean. I'll search but any good ways to test the fuel regulator?

[majo8]

One more thing -- I was getting FPRC, ECT, and EGR codes that I never got before the hard/no start condition, and that went away after I moved the battery up front.

[majo8]

I had no problems for over three years of the battery being in the trunk. They just all of sudden appeared. What you've been explaining, except for the rough-running part, is almost mirroring what happened to me. I replaced the FPR, temp sensors, solenoids, disty, crank position sensor -- all the things I was getting codes for and nothing helped. Even replaced the ECU.

Another engineer I know ( met a few through Lemons racing ) said that if you're running a long power cable from the trunk to the engine compartment, and a short ground from the battery to the trunk area, that as silly as it may sound, sometimes the extreme difference in length of the battery cables can have an effect too.

Not sure how to test the fuel regulator. Maybe test the solenoid first.

[Omaha95PGT]

Isn't there a Schrader valve (tire air valve) over on the passenger side? I changed my fuel setup a long time ago, but I recall the stock system having that valve presumably to be able to check the fuel pressure.

You can see if the FPR is working by applying a little suction or pressure to the FPR while the fuel pump is running. IIRC, at atmospheric pressure it should be around 40 psi. Adding vacuum will drop the pressure, adding pressure will raise the fuel pressure. You can probably use a small 10cc syringe with a length of vacuum hose to simulate vac/pressure. Alternatively, you could just suck/blow on the hose.

You can trigger the fuel pump even with the car not running by jumping the GND and FP with a paperclip in the Diag port with the car in the "on" position but not started.

[Level 9]

About to puts with it some more in a minute, get these boys to bed. I have a different battery I'll put in this time as well to see if it makes a difference as well. Will report back soon here

[majo8]

Battery probably won't make any difference. I used a different two month old fully charged battery and it didn't change anything. Hope it works for you.

[Level 9]

Well after trying to mess with it again now it won't start and now the battery is low due to cranking. It would crank for awhile start to studder like it wants to start then fail. I did notice after the battery started to drain cranking fuel press was starting to fall to 30 psi. I'll charge the battery fully again and if it doesn't start to move it it will be on to motor pulling time.

Any last thoughts on this? I just got a car cover and would like to just pull it out and cover it for the moment...

[Level 9]

Messed with it again today, won't start, just stumbled. Pulled codes 2, 3, 25, 41, 46. Pulled plugs they were soaked, cleaned them up still no start, changed the disty to a unknown condition one and nothing, put the one I had back on and now nothing with that either. After putting the unknown one in I reset the codes and 3 went away, but on the other hand it isn't even stumbling now. Think this week I'll start tearing the motor out since I'm pretty convinced the motor itself is fine, just probably needs a fuel pressure solenoid and new fpr and distributor again. Car I'm considering on picking up is a 96 and not sure if I can hook MS but would like to bypass this stupid distributor all together. This is the I think 4th one is this damn thing. I haven't even drove it in 11 years!

[bob k. mando]

said that if you're running a long power cable from the trunk to the engine compartment, and a short ground from the battery to the trunk area, that as silly as it may sound, sometimes the extreme difference in length of the battery cables can have an effect too.

more likely, it's that steel does NOT conduct as well as copper.

thus, saving a couple of bucks by running a short ground wire to the trunk will actually have quite a bit more resistance in the current path than running a full length, large gauge copper wire back into the engine compartment.

in a trunk mounted situation, i would run a discrete ground ( 12 ga or so ) direct from the battery to the fuel pump as well as large gauge cables directly to the starter and then continue that large gauge to the main fuse block.

[Brizzy]

Did you check out the crank sensor ?

[majo8]

I'll just say this one more time and then I'll go away. Put the battery back in it's OEM location and try to start it before you "tear the motor out". Like I said before, I had the same codes you are getting now when I had my battery in the trunk and my car wouldn't start. At first it would stumble and try to start, and then eventually nothing, just cranking -- just like you are experiencing now. Once I put the battery back under the hood, all codes went away and it started immediately.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[Level 9]

Putting that battery back in the stock location I would have to go purchase wire since how I ran everything done of it changed. Was just trying to get it to start to move it. This car when it was painted I lived somewhere else and since the move this car no longer has a headliner, no door panels, doors came out different shades of blue, front sensi bumper isn't lined up any more would like to go back to a stock look with no body kit, a rusted moon roof, and the bottom kick panels both sides and door sills are MIA as well. The car I'm looking at is fairly clean with blown head gaskets. This is a good motor and trans with good compression so it's coming out anyways. It will be easier to push with it out anyways. (damn gravel driveway)

I pulled out the crank sensor, looked good, I thought I replaced it along the way and looks like I did. It's clean. Wire looks good, pulled all the crap out inside too from when MS was hooked up and all the solder and heat shrink connections are nice and straight, not kinked or broken or anything like that. Which is weird because it has the code for it...

I would like to not have to purchase anything for this car in its current condition. But if it can start for another month that would be great. Just going to strip out the good and this shell has to go especially once I pick another one up I'll have some parts to work with anyways here soon. New PGT the battery will stay in the stock location. I do believe it has its benefits being up front and since I plan on just keeping this an n2o car I really don't need to relocate it anyways.

[BoostedMan]

Just cause the crank sensor looks good means nothing, test it per the manual.
Fix codes 2 and 25.