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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:52 AM   #1
FRCFD6
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Turbocharging FYI

Components
  • Collector pipe: pipe that merges front and rear exhaust manifolds and feeds into turbocharger
  • Turbocharger
  • Wastegate
  • Intercooler
  • Intercooler piping: from turbocharger to IC, from IC to VAF
  • Blow off valve or compressor bypass valve
  • Silicone couplers and clamps for intercooler piping
  • Downpipe: pipe expelling exhaust from turbocharger to cat
  • Oil lines: Feed line, -4AN; Drain line, at least 1/2”
  • Tapped oil pan: preferably have a ½” female fitting onto the pan
  • Oil drain flange/gasket: flange that bolts to turbocharger oil drain outlet
  • FMU: rising rate fuel pressure regulator used to increase fuel pressure according to boost levels
  • Spare fuel high pressure hose/clamps: factory size used to connect FMU
  • Fuel pump: Preferably a 255lph Walbro in-tank pump. Less desirables are the Walbro 190lph and any in-line fuel pump
  • Vacuum lines, vacuum block/several T’s
  • O2 sensor bungs (if you replace the log-manifolds with header primaries)
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Last edited by FRCFD6; March 15th, 2006 at 10:28 AM.
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:54 AM   #2
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Tools Required

Basic list of tools required for the turbo system DIYer:
Piping in a variety of sizes, including elbows, U bends, and straight sections
Chop saw for cutting pipes
Welder for exhaust piping and flanges
Drill with large drill bits for drilling out wastegate, o2 sensor, and bov flange holes
Couplers and clamps for IC piping, oil drain, and fuel lines
Standard and metric sockets, variety of wrench sizes, and standard wrenches
Large scale cutting tools for cutting through front wall and modifying front bumper. (Sawzall, etc)
Other misc automotive tools for removing and installing basic components
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:55 AM   #3
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Turbo system FAQ

Q: Where are the possible locations for placement of turbochargers and what are the positives/negatives about each?

A: The following are ranked from most desirable to least desirable in terms of construction/fitment to most difficult/most modification required to adapt. Note: the ranking of the following takes very little consideration into power and other factors. This is mainly my ideal setups based on my personal experiences.

1. Turbocharger below battery tray, next to transmission

notes: With the turbocharger below the battery tray, the collector pipes may be routed either around or under the oil pan and collect low to save piping/remove heat from the distributor area which is common with turbocharger in battery location setups. There is sufficient room in this area for a decent sized turbo. One might have problems fitting an internal wastegate with this setup, but anyone serious about a turbo system would probably consider an external wastegate. The collector pipe should join the front and rear manifold below the front manifold, and pass through the crossmember heading towards the driver’s side of the vehicle. (This will require crossmember modification, but this is the easiest of vehicle modifications) This allows a small section of pipe after the two banks collect where you should place your external wastegate. The turbo should be placed far enough towards the outside of the car to be able to fit the downpipe, which should exit on the passenger side of the car.
The intercooler piping should exit the turbocharger and make a 90 toward the driver’s side then enter a U bend around the wall and toward the passenger side where it will enter the intercooler. A hole in the front wall will be cut on the passenger side beside the intercooler where the IC outlet pipe should be routed. From this, a series of 90 degree bends will easily get you IC piping back up to the front of the engine, and up to the VAF. Your blow off valve or compressor bypass valve should be placed on this section of piping.
Oil drain could be a perceived problem with this setup due to minimal slope, so it is important that care is taken with tapping the oil pan and that there is little or no slack in the drain line, and minimizing areas where the drain line is parallel to the ground.

Benefits of this placement choice include:
· Battery may remain in factory location
· May retain factory fans
· Oil filter may remain in factory location
· Fairly simple intercooler piping
· Short distance for DP/collector pipes

Negatives for this placement choice include:
· Crossmember will almost definitely need to be modified. Pipes could be routed below the crossmember, however, this is not recommended.
· Intercooler piping will pass right in front of the engine, a high heat area, immediately after passing through the intercooler, thus heating the cooled charge air
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:56 AM   #4
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2. Turbocharger in front of engine bay, above front exhaust manifold

notes: This system will immediately require the use of extremely small cooling fans. This is the current system design that my car features, and I use two 12” Permacool fans placed strategically on the radiator where space permits.

The rear manifold pipe should run below the oil pan and up towards the front manifold where they must join just left and above the front manifold. The front manifold exit pipe should make a small U heading up towards the turbocharger, where they should meet. (probably at or near the flange) The downpipe will exit the turbocharger toward the passenger side and run on the outside of the collector pipe. NOTE: Wastegate placement with this system is tricky. There are a few possible options. I don’t quite see it possible to place the wastegate on a section of pipe after they have collected while before entering the turbocharger since this section of pipe is so small and in a crammed area. You can either place the wastegate on the rear section of the collector pipe up near the rear oxygen sensor, and the wastegate will see only 3 cylinders, (a boost controller would be recommended to stabilize boost levels) or you could use an external wastegate to utilize the internal wastegate hole on the turbine housing. It will be next to impossible to fit an internal wastegate actuator in this area with a turbo of any significant size. There simply is not room. So what you would need to do is drill a hole on the downpipe flange where the hole on the turbine housing will be, and weld a small pipe onto your downpipe flange that feeds into your wastegate. Then weld another pipe onto the hole for the main exhaust outlet on the downpipe flange. So now you have two pipes coming off of your downpipe flange; one that is the regular downpipe, one that feeds into your wastegate. So basically you have an external wastegate operating like an internal wastegate would. This is not the most desirable since the hole in the turbine housing is smaller than the wastegate opening, but this is still better than an internal wastegate because external wastegates are much stronger and more accurate.

The compressor housing should be clocked to face downward, and the pipe should exit toward the passenger side of the car, come through a hole cut in the front wall, enter the intercooler on the left, then exit the intercooler, make a U bend around the right wall, then make a 90 upward, then a weak 90 and to the VAF. A good BOV placement would be right before the VAF on the downward slope.

Benefits of this placement include:
· Minimal exhaust piping
· No need to modify crossmember
· Ability to retain stock battery location
· Ability to retain stock oil filter location

Negatives aspects to this placement include:
· Ultra-slim fans a must
· Tricky wastegate placement
· Somewhat tight on space for large turbochargers
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Pearl '92 Audi //S4 GT3071R, running 27 psi
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:57 AM   #5
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3. Turbocharger in battery location

notes: This system is basically the same as system #1 with the exception of a bit more exhaust piping, and the need to relocate the battery. This can get complicated when routing a downpipe, since the distributor sits near where the downpipe will go. Header wrap is a must when near the distributor. Battery relocation should be done using high quality connections and a sufficiently sized battery cable. 2 AWG or larger is recommended. The battery should be grounded in the trunk. This should be the FIRST step when installing such a turbocharger system, to ensure that the car starts and operates with the battery in its new location. I was not so fortunate, and only God knows why.

Benefits of this system
· Turbocharger is visible
· Most common design of early turbo PGT’s

Negatives to this system
· Lots of extra piping
· Battery relocation

4. Turbocharger below front manifold (TKT’s current design)

notes: This system consists of a custom front manifold to which the turbocharger mounts to, and an additional flange on the turbine housing to accept a cross under pipe coming from the rear manifold. This causes a complete change in the turbine housing A/R, and could lead to slightly slower spool times, so it is imperative that the exhaust gas from the rear cylinders enters the turbine housing on a tangent line flowing with the turbine wheel, so that the flow from each bank does not fight each other. This is a difficult setup to fabricate on your own, since either a custom manifold must be used for the front, or a T3 flange must be welded onto the front manifold to bolt to the turbo. There is not room to merge the two banks before entering the turbocharger when below the manifold, so the split turbine housing is required. This is good for Mx6’s and Mx3’s which suffer from minimal room between the engine and radiator. Slim fans will most likely be required, as will the relocation of the oil filter plate. A plate will be required along with an oil filter relocation kit to bolt onto the engine block and move the oil filter out of the way.
Wastegate placement with this system gets tricky because there is no collector pipe, so it must be mounted on the cross-under pipe, thus only seeing 3 cylinders. This will work, but sparatic boost spikes have been experienced in the past, so a boost controller is recommended to stabilize boost levels.

Benefits of this system
· Space saving, minimal exhaust piping

Negatives of this system
· Complicated design, not for the amateur builder.
· Change of turbine housing area ratio


Q: What turbocharger will fit my application?

A: There are many ways to answer this question, and they are dependant on far too many variables. So instead of answering this question, I will lay out some basic facts that are good to know when choosing a turbocharger

· T3/T04 hybrid turbo’s are the most common for this car. Even the largest of T3/T4’s will spool up very fast. You will NOT face much lag from a turbo with a T3 turbine wheel. I currently run one of the largest hybrids available, and spool up is lighting fast.
· Magazines will tell you a T04 turbo is what is correct for our car. Based on the size of the turbine wheels, and my personal experience with T3/T4 hybrids, I would probably advise against a T04 turbo. Our cars our very fuel limited, so having a turbo over a certain size does nothing but hurt your low end power and spool up time, since our cars will never be able to support massive amounts of horsepower that these turbos can put out without serious fuel and engine management modifications.
· A standard T3 turbo will serve for excellent spool up time and will provide for a nice power increase, however most T3 turbos will have a difficult time maintaining sufficient boost levels at higher rpm. They have been reported to choke out at higher rpm, as evident by most compressor maps for T3 turbos on our cars. The wheel on very small turbos will chop the air very badly at high rpm and you will lose all efficiency.
· A T3 Super 60 or T3s60 is the largest T3 available. This has been said to be one of the best turbos for our cars, and I somewhat agree. This turbo will spool up instantly and stay strong close to redline, however dyno charts have shown it to produce maximum power at much lower rpms. True this turbo will spool up very fast and produce substantial low end power, but I say that if you can spool up a bigger turbo almost just as fast, then why not use it?
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:57 AM   #6
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· I have used a .42/.48A/R T3/T4 hybrid, (relatively small hybrid) a T3 Super 60, (which was just about the same size as the hybrid) and a largish T3/T04 hybrid, with a 72 trim wheel.
· T25 (Stock 2G Talon/Eclipse turbos) should be left out of all consideration for our cars. As a previous 97 Talon Tsi owner, I would not recommend that turbo to anyone even on a 2.0L 4 cylinder. This turbo would chop the air so badly above 5krpm that you would have huge power loss. A T28 is not much better.
· Mitsubishi turbos will typically cost more money than they are worth due to a huge demand in the DSM market, and anything smaller than an 18G will most likely be smaller than you would want to run on a PGT. A small 16G is just that: small. A big 16G is a bit better, but they will cost anywhere from $400-600 and require a oil restrictor, (Mitsu turbos require low oil pressure) when the same power can be achieved with standard Garrett T3’s which are overly abundant and cheap.
· A Mistu 14b follows the same restrictions as above. They provide for excellent upgrade possibilities, but again, they are small, and the above considerations must be accounted for.
· 60 series turbos and larger should be left out of consideration due to enormous size. Use of a turbo this size will require extensive fuel modification that can not be dropped in/bolted up. This is for the serious engine builder/dyno junkie with plenty of loose cash.


Q: What is the best wastegate available?

A: The two most commonly used wastegates for small engine/low boost setups are the Turbonetics Deltagate, and the Tial 35mm wastegate. The Tial is a bit larger and has a bit better repution, but is marginally more expensive. The Deltagate can usually be found for <$200 brand new, where the Tial is usually >$200. Internal wastegates will suffice, at the expense of space and performance/precision. Turbonetics offers a Racegate that is typically used in high boost race applications, as does HKS, and GReddy, and a few other companies. These wastegates are generally much more than a PGT owner will ever need.


Q: Which bov should I use?

A: There are many bov’s available, anywhere from stock bov’s to many aftermarket units. If a stock bov is used, a 1G DSM bov is an excellent choice. 2G DSM bov’s should be avoided completely due to a cheap plastic body and poor contruction/strength. Information and sound files for aftermarket bov’s can be found here: http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/blowoffvalve.html My personal favorite is the HKS super sequential bov, the bullet style valve found on the top of the page.


Q: What fuel mods are required for a turbocharger on my PGT?

A: The most basic fuel mods, and proven efficient, are an FMU and an upgraded fuel pump. The best choices being a 12:1 FMU, either adjustable or non, and a 255lph Walbro in tank fuel pump. Both are quite easy to install and will provide sufficient fuel delivery for all systems that utilize factory injectors. The common saying is that you can never be hurt by over-building your fuel system. A basic non adjustable Vortech 12:1 FMU will run about $100 new, as will a Walbro 255lph fuel pump.

For high power applications, 250+ horsepower, Millenia S injectors are an option, which flow between 270cc and 280cc. These will require an aftermarket FPR to lower fuel pressure and maintain idle, or else an adjustable FMU/FPR such as the Cartech or Vortech. These can be used with the above fuel mods and have provided enough headway in past systems to make about 280whp. For high boost on a ZE motor, these are a must have.
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Old April 10th, 2003, 08:58 AM   #7
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Q: What size piping should I use for each section of pipe?

A: Collector pipes should be kept small, <2” ID, and made of thick steel, to keep both exhaust velocities high, and keep temperatures insulated inside the piping. Insulated header wrap is always a good idea for this section of pipe as well.
Downpipes should be no smaller than 2.5” and can go as large as 3” ID. Thick steel is not as imperative, but header wrap is a plus as to keep the heat away from other components.
Intercooler piping diameter can be calculated for closed systems, but for variable boost applications like turbochargers, piping size is still grounds for debate. I and others have had success using pipe diameters between 2-2.5”


Q: What size/type of oil lines should I use?

A: See above under “components” for sizes. Feed lines should be braided lines with AN fittings if possible. It is best to avoid rubber lines for the oil feed. Drain lines may be rubber oil hose, as long as it is a high temp line and is kept away from components that will cause it to melt. Brake lines can also be used for feed lines, as long as the diameter is similar to that of a standard -4AN line.
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Old April 10th, 2003, 09:13 AM   #8
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Old April 10th, 2003, 10:56 AM   #9
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Old April 10th, 2003, 12:10 PM   #10
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Old March 28th, 2004, 08:46 PM   #11
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Re: Turbocharging FYI, PLEASE read first before posting.

Quote:
From Shomegrown
I use toluene and Xylene all the time. It's not a bad idea to add a little ATF in there for lubrication...like 8 oz or so per tank. I have 93 octane available from the pump...so a 30% Xylene mix yields me 100 octane. You shouldn't go stronger than 30%

I get it for $8.30ish per gallon at Sherwin Williams.
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