Tein SS

[SeanGTS]

Hello guys,

Visiting over from celicatech.com, looking for some more information about the Tein SS coilovers. We're in a bit of a debate about these, so im obviously very curious to what some of the very knowledgable probe talk team has to say about a few points Im about to buy some of these for my celica, but I want the absolute best, and I want to make sure this is it

Its been reported to me that the Tein system uses a subpar valving system that has its low points. Instead of using a digressive valve, I have been told that it uses a linear valve. This is going to greatly effect the performance of the strut, given different velocities factors of compression.

"1) Due to the design you won't feel a difference until the hole is almost completely closed up. (i.e. only the last few "clicks" make a real difference in how the suspension feels)

2) Linear valving. This means that the damping will increase equally by the increase in force applied. The alternative, which has been used in offroad racing for years, is what's called digressive valving. Effectively, this means that at high speed cycles (i.e. hitting a pothole or bumps in the road), the damping is minimal, but at low speeds (i.e. taking a sharp turn, hitting the brakes, etc.), the damping is much higher. This results in a better ride quality on the street but with better damping for taking the turns."


I am positive that Tein will use the same (i think they're monotube, correct?) damper throughout the SS line, so I'm positive this is applicable to you folks as well. The qoute above is from a BRILLIANT celica enthusiasts that I respect to a great deal, he's a mechanical engineer and has done some incredible stuff with his celica.

Any thoughts on this?

Come check out our thread please?
It actually starts gettin good at Post 14
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12085

Thanks guys!

[unknowncitizen]

Do you even own a probe/mx6/mx3/626???

[SeanGTS]

Thats very irrelevant in the matter of the Tein SS.

This is a common ground that regardless of the make, we can all comment on. Perhaps it might keep some people from buying the Tein's, perhaps it wont? Not a personal vendetta versus Tein, just trying to find the best product for everyone.

That fair?

[P1P]

Do you even own a probe/mx6/mx3/626???

do you have to own a car to ask a question

[deyan]

I drove the test PGT thats equiped with SS, and trust me, the teins are nothing but OUTSTANDING, at least for our cars, there is nothing that can touch them!

[dmark101]

first, let me welcome you to the board on behalf of the PT administration.

please pay no mind to 'unknowncitizen', as the question of whether or not you own the namesake vehicle for this forum is irrelevant in this discussion.

a few people have driven the TEIN test mule now and they're very impressed with how the vehicle handles. stacey was the initial contact with TEIN and mike ('the brain') owns the test mule. he was involved with the production of this unit from day one. it might be best to read up on stacey's (racy-stacey) comments regarding her drive in the car, as she is a licensed SCCA club racer, and to read mike's initial comments as he took delivery of the car after being equipped with the TEIN super street dampers.

[SeanGTS]

Pleasure to be here, looks like an awesome forum!

As far as the review, I have read it a couple times now (I even cross posted it onto celicatech.com, link above with credit given where necessary), yet I still have a concern.

Again, I've been told that these dampers are weak by the following facts:

"A good portion of lower end (sub $2000) coilover kits from east Asia control the damping with a needle valve. To adjust the damping the needle is moved closer or further from the hole. This design, while cheap, has a couple of drawbacks:
1) Due to the design you won't feel a difference until the hole is almost completely closed up. (i.e. only the last few "clicks" make a real difference in how the suspension feels)

2) Linear valving. This means that the damping will increase equally by the increase in force applied. The alternative, which has been used in offroad racing for years, is what's called digressive valving. Effectively, this means that at high speed cycles (i.e. hitting a pothole or bumps in the road), the damping is minimal, but at low speeds (i.e. taking a sharp turn, hitting the brakes, etc.), the damping is much higher. This results in a better ride quality on the street but with better damping for taking the turns."

I frankly believe the guy, he's absolutely brilliant with these types of things, and is HIGHLY respected among MANY. I am curious of Stacey has some information on the type of valves that Tein incorporated, and whether or not they is a factor with the Tein SS Coilovers. I posted our discussion on celicatech.com above.

The review lacks testing at greater speeds in which the damper is going to be subject to quicker reactions. This is where this system MAY lack. Your typical Linear valve shock will oppose a contraction of higher velocity with much greater force. Meaning, at faster speeds on the highway, or lapping on the track, the ride may just be to harsh! This of course would make these a bad choice for daily driving. Which is what I'm trying to figure out. By no means am I attempting to discourage Tein from producing these, or to have probetalk.com members not purchase these. I'm merely attempting to get some facts out there.

Thanks

[Racy-Stacey]

Sean interresting questions your post.

I have to think that its come down to personal preference. If the valving issue is your only issue then you might want to consider another factor. Usage. There are a few high end systems available for your car. Systems that I havent experienced yet. Systems that I cant comment on. So I cant give you a commparrison between valvings of one type or an other. For us with our limited supply of suspension systems for the Probe this is the best one. If your worried about ride comfort then you'll have to find people local to you that have the systems that you are considering and go for a ride. The feel of what we have in our probes might not feel the same in your celica both fitted with TEIN suspensions, due to size weight wheelbase differences.

Hope that helps.

[SeanGTS]

Im actually in the same boat, the Toyota Celica in the early years has VERY minimal suspension outlets. Theres KYB AGX's, Koni Yellows, then blistein's. Our corner weights are very similiar, but yes, tons of differences past this of course.

I guess then, can you at least report how the car felt on the highway? Did you notice if the car answered road faults with a sharper, more agressive feedback?

Everything else about this coilovers sounds SPOT on to what I'm looking for. As you know, they're VERY expensive (maybe not in comparison to other setups, but still expensive ) and I just want to be sure I have the right setup.

Regardless, I GREATLY appreciate your reviews, your replies and your time!

Your right though Stacey, its all relative! Ideal road comfort for one person will be entirely too rough for others. Considering I have virtually no struts at this point, anything would be an upgrade!

I think your reviews have put me over the top. I did just help a buddy install some Tein SS on his alltrac, and the handling was simply amazing. Thus, my search and quest to find the best suspension I can.

Happy Trails,
Sean

[94PGT]

i think its really beneficial to have questions brought up, hopefully they will be answered so that purchasing decisions are backed up by facts and not just saying "brand X blows brand Y out of the water". this type of statement is useless. now if you back up the above statement with real reasons why "brand X" has a better product, then fine. i dont care if everybody and their brother is racing with tein suspension products, racing capability and streetablility are two different things and the ability to do both are even tougher. sean brings up a ligitimate point with the valving design, and that combined with the high spring rate is concerning. im not knocking tein, but ive seen this type of defense of various products over the years, not just those limited to the auto aftermarket. im just looking for hard evidence and not armchair "experts". why would i care about how the coilovers come out? because i am considering them but need information to make an informed decision, nothing more, nothing less.

[SeanGTS]

why would i care about how the coilovers come out? because i am considering them but need information to make an informed decision, nothing more, nothing less.

Exact same reason why I'm here

:hehe: never thought I would be on a probe site discussing this! Thank god for google!