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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Discussion of Maint Issues for V6

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Old November 22nd, 2017, 12:29 PM   #1
MightyMike
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Question engine stalls

I got some weird issue which I am not sure what the cause is.
I was driving and suddenly my rpm's went up and then came back. I didn't thought much of it at the time.
I parked, went to see someone and came back and drove of.
After a few minutes, rpm went up again and then instantly dropped down, on the middle of a busy road. No fun, I tell you that!
Car didnt wanted to start right away. After a few minutes the car started and all seemed well again.
I drove of and about 20 sec later rpm's up and instant down and up and down till the engine stalled again.
Some guy who saw me struggling was so kind to tow me home..
Next day, (today) I cleaned my oil catch can since I thought it might be full (which it was a bit) I thought the contents might be blown back into engine giving me this issue.. After clean and reinstalling I drove to my parents (short distance) all went well. I parked and I left engine on and after few minutes while I was reving the engine, same thing happend. Rpm's dropped to 0 and engine stopped.. After few minutes engine starts fine.
I left the car for few hours and drove back home later. Seems this issue will pop up when engine gets to certain temperature.
Its kinda looks like a distributor failure but I am not sure.. (i'm no expert..)
Does someone have a clue what the problem might be?
I dont feel safe to drive now.

Thanks in advance for your reply.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 04:58 PM   #2
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Atx or mtx? I once had an atx that did some weird stuff when the trans went bad the first time. Some symptoms seemed to be nonexistent until it got warm.

If it's loping at idle mind did that after I had my manifold and tb off which is caused from what I remember an air pocket in the coolant causes that but it resolved on its own I remember so I didn't do anything to correct that but drive it.

Other than that if it's an mtx car and the symptoms described does sound like it could possibly be the distributor but when mine failed it did not do this however.

What year is the car? Any codes/cel? Also I would check to see if the crank wire and end are clean/in good shape.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 10:17 PM   #3
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By rev up do you mean the car accelerates or rpms go up but the car stays the same speed? Is the vaf plug connected on there well? Vacuum leaks anywhere? Do you have a disconnected a/c compressor and are running the heater/defrost. Usually the ecu kicks a higher idle to compensate when the a/c compressor is supposed to be on, but if it's not actually turning on then it can cause a surge. Happened in my Jeep, also my Probe just not as pronounced in the Probe. Jeep actually almost hit the car in front of me because the surge pushed more strongly than I was holding the brake at a traffic light.
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 03:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
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Atx or mtx? I once had an atx that did some weird stuff when the trans went bad the first time. Some symptoms seemed to be nonexistent until it got warm.

If it's loping at idle mind did that after I had my manifold and tb off which is caused from what I remember an air pocket in the coolant causes that but it resolved on its own I remember so I didn't do anything to correct that but drive it.

Other than that if it's an mtx car and the symptoms described does sound like it could possibly be the distributor but when mine failed it did not do this however.

What year is the car? Any codes/cel? Also I would check to see if the crank wire and end are clean/in good shape.
thanks for your reply.
Its a manual transmission probe from '95
I had a distributor failure before some years ago but then car would shut of in an instant. I didn't pull any codes yet, on dashboard I only have my airbag code flashing. If i start when engine is cold it runs fine with stable idle to.
I pulled the cap of from my coolant, let it idle when the coolant reached up I closed it again, this would make sure there aren't any air bubbles right?

I got some info from a guy I know who says its pretty sure the Crank Angle Position Sensor ..
Could that be it?
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 02:47 PM   #5
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Check the codes. If it's the crank position sensor, you should get a code for that.

https://forums.probetalk.com/showthr...p?t=1701015446

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Old November 23rd, 2017, 06:48 PM   #6
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When my distributor went bad I believe I got the code 02 if I remember right but don't hold me to that. I'm also not sure if OBD I will give you a "pending" code like OBD II will but you could try to hook up ten and ground and see if it does spit out a code for ya. I think I remember someone on here having a very similar issue you are having that ended up being the distributor.

OBD II will store a code as pending and not illuminate the check engine light until the problem repeats itself, again I'm not sure if OBD I does this or not so I would definitely just try to see if anything is stored. Then try to do another quick search on here to see if that thread turns up. If it is losing track of the crank or cam signal it will definitely cause problems.

As for the coolant you should be alright. It would drive ok but do a very annoying loping idle.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 10:43 AM   #7
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Thumbs up Update:

been a while before I was able to get a new cps sensor installed, I replaced it yesterday and so far it seems the problem went away. I didn't drive very long yet but I am optimistic I also have the feeling the whole engine runs smoother but that might be the same feeling when you wash your car it seems to drive better..lol

Thank you all for helping out
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Old January 8th, 2018, 09:29 AM   #8
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should have known not to put "its solved" answer so soon.. went to work this morning and I wanted to park, when I switched to reverse gear.. engine went of and didn't want to start again. Later, when I went home, I made it without any problems.. these probes have a will on its own....
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Old January 8th, 2018, 05:31 PM   #9
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Damn. I'm guessing, but it might be the engine coolant temperature sensor, or the distributor.
But you really need to check the codes.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 07:10 AM   #10
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But you really need to check the codes.
Agreed. Too much guess work involved when you don't know if any codes are being generated.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:23 AM   #11
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I pulled the codes today but I will do again after a reset since 02 is still in it..which shouldn't since I replaced the sensor.
Now I got:
02
09
24
(and 46 but I know that solenoid is bad..)
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Old January 10th, 2018, 12:42 PM   #12
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status after ecu reset

I left battery off for a day and did some checks the next day.
I noticed a bit of a loose wire at the ECT sensor (had to cut it in the past to replace it) I fixed it and then put the battery on and left the engine running for 20 min. After this I checked to codes again. Weirdly all codes were gone except the 46 which is not an issue.
I didn't drive with the car yet so I am not sure if some codes are only being generated while driving, since I only let the engine running so far..
I will try a test drive tomorrow.
Could my troubles be cause of a short circuited ect sensor?

Thanks
Mike
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Old January 11th, 2018, 07:09 AM   #13
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If the ect sensor is defective on had faulty wiring if the pcm cannot read it should enter kind of a safe mode I do believe. I would take it for a short drive after correcting that and we can see from there.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 09:22 AM   #14
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ok, I drove for a short distance. Also went to park and reverse etc.
Came home ok. Then I went checking codes and still only the 46 and no others.
I decided to burp the coolant and when I was waiting for the coolant to come up, the engine (after few min) shutoff. I could not start, or start very shortly: rpms dropped to 0 and engine stopped. After few min it would start again and I finished the coolant burp.
Need to drive again this evening, lets see what happens.
Any input is very appreciated.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 04:25 PM   #15
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Is the fuel pump dying out? I've never had to do any diagnostics on my pump yet so i don't have any good info for you on the procedure, but i'm sure a quick search will get all the info you need for testing that. My friends silverado had very similar issues to what you are describing just the other day and his issue wound up being the fuel pump.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 09:19 PM   #16
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Not much to add, but I had somewhat similar problems a couple years ago. I was getting a CPS code after a no-start problem, replaced it, and still had the code and no start. Fuel was good, no spark. Switched out the disty, no change. Replaced the ECU, and the car started, CPS code was gone, but then got new codes for FPRS and temp sensor. Then I put the old ECU back in and it still started!

Next day it wouldn't start, and the CPS code was back. Put the new ECU back in and it started, CPS code gone, FPRS and temp codes back. Replaced FPRS and temp sensor, and cleared those codes. I also tried to clean as many grounds as I could. The car has been starting fine since then ( it's a stock race car so I only run it a dozen times a year ), but I never really solved the problem and fear it may come back at any time.

These cars can be finicky. Good luck with your issue.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 01:50 PM   #17
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Found this post

https://forums.probetalk.com/showthr...+won%27t+crank

Might be worth reading over since its related to the crank sensor wiring
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Old January 14th, 2018, 08:44 AM   #18
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Found this post

https://forums.probetalk.com/showthr...+won%27t+crank

Might be worth reading over since its related to the crank sensor wiring
Thanks. I think my problem is bit different though. Today I went for small drive and let the engine get to operating temp. At one point the rpm's went up and down and I was afraid it would stall again. Fortunately I got home.

-when engine is cold i can drive fine
-when engine gets to normal operating temperature, the problems come.

My current ideas: ECT sensor, i changed this one some years ago and had to cut the cable en reattach. Its not really attached they way I would like, maybe I should solder it?

I hear a small hissing in the engine compartment, maybe a crack in manifold or something? Not sure..

any input is appreciated
Thx, Mike
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Old January 14th, 2018, 12:14 PM   #19
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As for the wiring I always solder and heat shrink wiring. It is the only way to wire in my opinion. If you hear a hissing sound I would investigate that as well. Had the intake ever been removed? Still showing no codes? Is code 46 showing up due to a bad solenoid or a bad vac line leading to the solenoid?

Be sure ect wiring is good
Check for vac leaks
Check for codes again after the car has repeated the problem
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Old January 14th, 2018, 12:17 PM   #20
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My bad coil had a similar symptoms. It also got hot quicker. I even took off my cat to see if it was clogged and put it back on. All kinds of crazy, chasing my ass all over the car shit for a failing coil. I was running a 95 disty. Next time I'm just replacing the coil before anything else and patching in my GM ignitor, (already installed,) if the coil doesn't do it. It is bad troubleshooting to just replace parts. Long term fix, MAF swap so you can easily run a 95 distributor. The 95 doesn't have the really expensive internal bs for the cam sensor, so if you have a new coil, and an external ignitor to test with you can confirm it's good. Always buy new internal parts if you can. A parts store disty may not have new internals, may be patched or repaired. Our distributors are just always failing anyway, If it isn't your problem, you will have a spare for when it does fail.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 07:38 AM   #21
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i've been testing some things with the car:
distri seems fine, cleaned up air intake etc.
All went ok for a week and the problem didn't occur until today.
Only difference is that I added a some fuel to the tank today. I drove away from a parking when i went for groceries and i felt my steering suddenly being heavy and my rpm's falling down. Couldn't start for a min and suddenly it worked. Im a bit confused again..lol
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Old January 27th, 2018, 11:29 AM   #22
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I still think you should check your fuel pump. Next time it dies and won't start, jump the pins in the diagnostics box to activate the fuel pump and see if you can hear it run.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 01:20 PM   #23
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I've had the random cutout thing before, started up again after cooling down for a few seconds. It was the distributor, my first re-man distributor in fact, days after install. I've had the "it runs fine on start up, gets worse as it warms up." It was the distributor. Electrical gremlins, overheating which led to a blown lower cap tank, extra raspiness to the exhaust, word on the street is 93/94 distributors are at fault for the 07 financial collapse and job market as well.

On the fuel side, I've only stressed my fuel pump once in 9 years with this car, running it out of fuel. It slowly ran out of fuel over several months working on it and when I finally was taking it to the gas station it ran out. FML right!?! I went got some fuel in a can and it wouldn't start, sure enough popped the fuse. Replaced the fuse and she started right up. Still running on the same fuel pump now, no sign of weakness to it, may even be the original pump. I'm thinking if it was fuel the problem would be worse, there'd be extra cranking maybe a blown fuse. Test for fuel pressure with a tester from the parts store, be sure to get your deposit back on the tools you will need it for a new distributor or parts to the distributor, also replace the filter if it hasn't been changed in awhile.

If the hissing sound were a coolant or vacuum leak the car wouldn't shut off, you'd just have idle issues. What about your IAC valve, is it clogged with oil from the catch can incident? Lookup proper cleaning procedures for that the wrong cleaner can ruin the valve.
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Old January 27th, 2018, 01:23 PM   #24
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I've had GM cars around when it wouldn't start you could kick the tank and it would run again a short bit. At least get it to the house where I could repair them. After the car is off you can turn the key to the on position but not start it and you should be able to hear the pump run for 3 seconds. It should be pretty easy to hear. Next time check that out, when my pump failed it died in my driveway luckily. The steering got tight due to the rpm dropping and not spinning the power steering pump.

What codes are currently showing now?

Even my 95 disty was a pos. I recently just came across the milk crate that had 3 old ones in it. I wouldn't rule it out. Since I have MS I will be ditching the damn thing as soon as it even thinks about giving me any more crap and go to distributorless.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 02:55 PM   #25
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thanks for the input guys.
I tested distributor by driving, and lower rpm to 1000 rpm and shift gear to 5 and floor it.. if you have a bad distri, you would notice this for sure.
mine just gently picked up speed without stuttering.

I checked codes today and guess what, new codes showed up.
I got codes:
2
24
69
My gut says its 69 who causes this since the connector is a bit flimsy attached..
But I'm still guessing..
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