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OK -After keeping an eye on KLZE purchases and associated problems with customer support, just plain garbage engines or scam job A-spec Millenia KLZE's I feel it is time to start a thread covering pre-installation inspection and measures to help protect you in your big KLZE investment. I realize that many people are operating on college funding or minimum wage budgets and so every dollar counts. Nobody wants to be ripped off.
So here is the intent of this thread. This is to first of all present what should be inspected in a newly received KLZE engine before the car is even pulled into the shop for the swap and measures you should do to protect your investment. Thread posts should be kept to facts only and preferrably backed by high quality photos (most camera phone pics do not meet this requirement). This thread should be kept as objective as possible so good experience posts are welcome and wanted.
1) First off ask to see photos of the engine you will be receiving before you place the order for comparison with the engine you actually receive. When you have received your KLZE you should save the packing list or shipping documents. These are extremely important if a conflict arises so that it can be determined as to where any damage may have originated from. It is highly recommended that you insist on insurance through the shipper.
2) Have a very good digital camera to take photos (as often as possible) from the moment you begin to un-palletize the engine. Take photos before you even touch it. Take photos as you begin to unwrap it. Leave the plastic wrapping around the base of the engine as you dissassemble it for inspection so that it can be seen that you didn't alter anything. Take photos before valve cover removal.
3) Remove the front valve cover and take photos of the head and cams before you remove or touch anything. This is not a 100% indication but the color of the deposits can determine the approximate mileage of the engine. Color can also vary based on how well the car was maintained. But typically if the head is silverish to very light gold the engine can be 20k miles or lower. 20k-50k the color should be a light golden to light bronze with no sludge build up yet. 50k-100k the color may be dark golden to brown and some sludge may be present but not excessive. 100-150K the color will be brown to very dark brown and sludge more than likely present and possibly very thick. Over 150k will be just plain nasty!
4) Inspect very thoroughly for cracked retainers. KLZE engines are very well known for cracking the retainers and dropping the valves. It is also very recommended that after performing your pre-installation inspection that you replace the KLZE intake valvesprings, retainers and locks with either KL01 versions or aftermarket. There are several threads on PT about how to do this so use the search function and do some in-depth reading into this.
5) Remove the cam cap nearest the distributor (not the one that the disributor mounts in). Gently rock it back and forth to losen it until it comes off. (more photos) Then wipe it clean with a very clean dry cloth. Take photos of the clean cloth prior and during wiping to show that you did not cause any scoring that may be found. What you need to look for is scoring in the cam cap. If there is scoring then this is a good sign that there are metal particles in the oil supply that are damaging the cams and bearing caps. These particles are more than likely grinded from the #6 bearing. Ref pics: http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...amagedCaps.jpg
6) If you find scoring in the previous step then it is highly recommendable to pull the oil pan and inspect the rod and perhaps main bearings. It may not be neccessary to inspect the mains if the rods are good because normally the rods are the first to go and in particular the #6 because it is furthest from the oil supply and gets the least amout of oil.
Put your engine on a stand (if you have one). If you don't then remove the intake manifold and any other breakable items (photo, photo) so you can roll the engine upside down (photos). Remove the oil pan to inspect the rod bearings (photos before touching internals). Then remove the #6 rod cap to inspect the bearing. It should not be scored, malled, jagged, out of alignment from the rod split line or missing. If it shows any unusual wear or signs of burned metal, melted etc then take photos.
7) DO NOT GET MAD AT THIS POINT! It may be very hard to not do so but to get the best results from the importer you need to start with a reasonable attitude. E-mail the high quality photos to the importer and call them directly after sending them so that you can discuss the photos first hand before the e-mail has a chance to slip into oblivion (or denial -whichever comes first). You as the customer should not have to pay for any additional shipping to rectify the problem even though many of the importers try telling you that you have to. If you don't make a stand then you will get abused!
8) If you have been taken at this point and the seller refuses to work with you when you have been reasonable then you have several options available to you. First of all you may post your results with photobucket photos in this thread. Second you can flile a small claims court claim against the importer if they are based in the US. You can report bad customer support to the consumer reports agency http://www.consumerreports.org And if warranted you may even be able to work through their local law enforcement agency to get your money back. (I have done this before) Just be sure to have all receipts, proofs of purchase, shipping docs, photos etc...
I will continue to add information to this thread and photos of typical signs of damage to look for. I think it is time for a thread like this and I think it will save many new and a few old members from much heartache.
This stems from a recent KLZE install I attempted (twice now) for someone and the first engine looked as though it was between 100k-150k miles when it was claimed to be 30-50 with compression leak down tests as most vendors claim. It had a spun #6 bearing and the seller told the customer that he should have just put the engine in and run it and it would have been fine. I would be willing to bet one of my paychecks that it wouldn't have lasted a week. Who wants to replace an engine again after only a day or two of driving? answer: nobody but nascar drivers
So the second engine was sent after the customer had to pay shipping again (shouldn't have had to) but upon this inspection we found the cams to be so badly rusted that if we had installed it with no inspection and run it like that then it would have destroyed the HLAs after a very short time. And a camshaft could possbly have broken. Again the seller (Owner) told the customer that he should have run it like that and it would be fine. He said they do it all the time.
So after these experiences and after all the readings I have done in thread after thread I decided it was time to make a stand against bad business. This thread is not for people who drop valves and destroy engines and get all torqued over it. If you don't inspect your engine thoroughly before installation then you are on your own. This is why it is highly recommendable to do the inspection.
So here is the intent of this thread. This is to first of all present what should be inspected in a newly received KLZE engine before the car is even pulled into the shop for the swap and measures you should do to protect your investment. Thread posts should be kept to facts only and preferrably backed by high quality photos (most camera phone pics do not meet this requirement). This thread should be kept as objective as possible so good experience posts are welcome and wanted.
1) First off ask to see photos of the engine you will be receiving before you place the order for comparison with the engine you actually receive. When you have received your KLZE you should save the packing list or shipping documents. These are extremely important if a conflict arises so that it can be determined as to where any damage may have originated from. It is highly recommended that you insist on insurance through the shipper.
2) Have a very good digital camera to take photos (as often as possible) from the moment you begin to un-palletize the engine. Take photos before you even touch it. Take photos as you begin to unwrap it. Leave the plastic wrapping around the base of the engine as you dissassemble it for inspection so that it can be seen that you didn't alter anything. Take photos before valve cover removal.
3) Remove the front valve cover and take photos of the head and cams before you remove or touch anything. This is not a 100% indication but the color of the deposits can determine the approximate mileage of the engine. Color can also vary based on how well the car was maintained. But typically if the head is silverish to very light gold the engine can be 20k miles or lower. 20k-50k the color should be a light golden to light bronze with no sludge build up yet. 50k-100k the color may be dark golden to brown and some sludge may be present but not excessive. 100-150K the color will be brown to very dark brown and sludge more than likely present and possibly very thick. Over 150k will be just plain nasty!
4) Inspect very thoroughly for cracked retainers. KLZE engines are very well known for cracking the retainers and dropping the valves. It is also very recommended that after performing your pre-installation inspection that you replace the KLZE intake valvesprings, retainers and locks with either KL01 versions or aftermarket. There are several threads on PT about how to do this so use the search function and do some in-depth reading into this.
5) Remove the cam cap nearest the distributor (not the one that the disributor mounts in). Gently rock it back and forth to losen it until it comes off. (more photos) Then wipe it clean with a very clean dry cloth. Take photos of the clean cloth prior and during wiping to show that you did not cause any scoring that may be found. What you need to look for is scoring in the cam cap. If there is scoring then this is a good sign that there are metal particles in the oil supply that are damaging the cams and bearing caps. These particles are more than likely grinded from the #6 bearing. Ref pics: http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...amagedCaps.jpg
6) If you find scoring in the previous step then it is highly recommendable to pull the oil pan and inspect the rod and perhaps main bearings. It may not be neccessary to inspect the mains if the rods are good because normally the rods are the first to go and in particular the #6 because it is furthest from the oil supply and gets the least amout of oil.
Put your engine on a stand (if you have one). If you don't then remove the intake manifold and any other breakable items (photo, photo) so you can roll the engine upside down (photos). Remove the oil pan to inspect the rod bearings (photos before touching internals). Then remove the #6 rod cap to inspect the bearing. It should not be scored, malled, jagged, out of alignment from the rod split line or missing. If it shows any unusual wear or signs of burned metal, melted etc then take photos.
7) DO NOT GET MAD AT THIS POINT! It may be very hard to not do so but to get the best results from the importer you need to start with a reasonable attitude. E-mail the high quality photos to the importer and call them directly after sending them so that you can discuss the photos first hand before the e-mail has a chance to slip into oblivion (or denial -whichever comes first). You as the customer should not have to pay for any additional shipping to rectify the problem even though many of the importers try telling you that you have to. If you don't make a stand then you will get abused!
8) If you have been taken at this point and the seller refuses to work with you when you have been reasonable then you have several options available to you. First of all you may post your results with photobucket photos in this thread. Second you can flile a small claims court claim against the importer if they are based in the US. You can report bad customer support to the consumer reports agency http://www.consumerreports.org And if warranted you may even be able to work through their local law enforcement agency to get your money back. (I have done this before) Just be sure to have all receipts, proofs of purchase, shipping docs, photos etc...
I will continue to add information to this thread and photos of typical signs of damage to look for. I think it is time for a thread like this and I think it will save many new and a few old members from much heartache.
This stems from a recent KLZE install I attempted (twice now) for someone and the first engine looked as though it was between 100k-150k miles when it was claimed to be 30-50 with compression leak down tests as most vendors claim. It had a spun #6 bearing and the seller told the customer that he should have just put the engine in and run it and it would have been fine. I would be willing to bet one of my paychecks that it wouldn't have lasted a week. Who wants to replace an engine again after only a day or two of driving? answer: nobody but nascar drivers
So the second engine was sent after the customer had to pay shipping again (shouldn't have had to) but upon this inspection we found the cams to be so badly rusted that if we had installed it with no inspection and run it like that then it would have destroyed the HLAs after a very short time. And a camshaft could possbly have broken. Again the seller (Owner) told the customer that he should have run it like that and it would be fine. He said they do it all the time.
So after these experiences and after all the readings I have done in thread after thread I decided it was time to make a stand against bad business. This thread is not for people who drop valves and destroy engines and get all torqued over it. If you don't inspect your engine thoroughly before installation then you are on your own. This is why it is highly recommendable to do the inspection.
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