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Old August 12th, 2008, 03:55 PM   #1
Quicksilver
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Smog Numbers

Current setup
Freshly built KLZE with all stock emissions, 2600 miles, DE manifold,factory cat and HKS catback. timing set to 10 deg. also put Guarantee Pass in the tank, but I didnt read the instructions. Your suppose to put it in a full tank, drive until it needs refill, fill the tank then go for smog. I put it in the tank then went for smog.
Here are the Emissions requirements for Fresno Area

HC(PPM)
15 mph= Max 87 Ave 21
25 mph= Max 52 Ave 13

CO%
15 mph= Max 0.51 Ave 0.06
25 mph= Max 0.49 Ave 0.05

NO(PPM)
15 mph= Max 701 Ave 150
25 mph= Max 730 Ave 136


Here are my test results

HC(PPM)
15 mph= 43
25 mph= 21

CO%
15 mph=0.04
25 mph=0.02

NO(PPM)
15 mph=0563
25 mph=0653

So to answer anyones questions...YES you can successfully get a ZE to pass smog.

Heres a little funny story.
when i asked the guy how the timing was he said it was at 13 deg. I know it was at 10 deg @ 750rpms and I can tell from just listening to the car it was at a much higher rpm. I asked him if he checked the rpms and he did not cause he said the factory emissions sticker does not state what rpm the timing needs to be set at and passed me anyways. I wasnt going to correct him, guess he was in a hurry.
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Last edited by Quicksilver; August 13th, 2008 at 01:52 AM.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #2
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good stuff man!
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Old August 12th, 2008, 08:17 PM   #3
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When I replaced the OEM cat my HC were even lower than yours, but then my car was bone stock except for the ZE at that time. Now I have the Magnaflow catback with resonator. I doubt if it would change much, but I'm no expert on emissions. What do you guys think?
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Old August 12th, 2008, 09:54 PM   #4
Quicksilver
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you should be fine, i'm still running the HKS catback exhaust which is larger then stock
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Old August 13th, 2008, 12:55 AM   #5
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your NoX seems high, is your EGR working properly?
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Old August 13th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #6
Quicksilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfriceboy View Post
your NoX seems high, is your EGR working properly?
EGR is fine, its probably a combination of lower octane and higher compression pistons. i might have had a small air leak at the intake elbow.
NOx emissions are the result of high combustion chamber temps. NOx readings go up whenever there are hot spots that exceed about 2400 degrees. Things like high compression and lean mixtures contribute to high chamber temps, as does over-advanced ignition timing
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Old August 13th, 2008, 05:20 AM   #7
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I passed emissions with my NOx being lower. Come to think about it, my HC's were very close to yours. The only differences between mine and yours....... I passed with my chipped ECU, KL31 IM and no type of garunteed to pass stuff in my tank. And my timing was around 11-13 degrees. I made no effort to make the car pass other than just taking it down there.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 12:30 PM   #8
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Hey guys. something interesting just popped up on craigslist - a free older style SMOG gas analyzer: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/805091675.html

This would be an interesting gizmo for the club to have which could be helpful for tuning things up to pass a paid SMOG test before actually going in (which can be costly).

Just a thought.

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Old August 20th, 2008, 01:36 PM   #9
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only problem is we don't have rollers to test the cars one.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 11:12 PM   #10
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true - but at least you can know if you're close without. Gross polluter's used to be flagged for many years with this type of machine, no rollers attached.
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Old August 20th, 2008, 11:29 PM   #11
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i dont know, i think getting an idle reading is different then getting a MPH reading considering there is a load on the engine during the roller test.
if we could get the the specifications of emissions during the period when those machines were used, we might be able to establish somewhat of an accurate baseline of polutants. then we would have to establish a range of emissions to see what cars would pass and fail. but i think this would involve a lot of testing and frankly just doesnt seem to be worth it.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #12
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The SMOG thread

Please READ the entire post, and follow directions carefully. If your post does not adhere to the discussion at hand it will be removed.

A couple of useful links for your smog woes (thanks to Jarrod and Ed for posting these some time ago):
http://www.firstfives.org/faq/smog/smog_faq.html
http://www.artsautomotive.com/thesmogstory.htm

Jarrod (Quicksilver) suggested a permanent smog thread where we all list our numbers and what we did to pass smog. If you failed, but later passed, list the repairs/changes you made.

Make sure you list your year, engine size, transmission, mileage, etc - just follow the format (copy & paste, but insert your own numbers).

For Visual (list failed items), look on page one of your smog report - you should see things like PCV, EGR, Vacuum lines/sensors, Fuel cap, etc - if all of them say PASS, do not list anything in that line. We just care to see what failed in the visual part.


For the ASM Emission Test Results section, just copy the numbers from Page 2 of your smog report. Do not include your VIN# or plate#.

Please put your results in bold to make it easier to see them, and put the failed numbers in red. If your MAX values vary from the ones listed, adjust them to your area's max allowable numbers.

This is for CALIFORNIA smog tests only! Out of state submissions will be deleted or moved.

If you submit a failed test but come back later to post a passed one, please edit your original post and add the new numbers and what you did to fix it. DO NOT ERASE your failed numbers, just add the new ones below your comments.


------------------------
------------------------
Year:
Engine size:
Mileage:
Fuel grade:
Transmission:
Ignition Timing:
Visual (list failed items):

15 MPH
RPM:
%CO2 Meas:
%O2 Meas:
HC (PPM) Meas (87 Max):
CO % Meas (0.51 Max):
NOx (PPM) Meas (701 Max):
Result:


25 MPH
RPM:
%CO2 Meas:
%O2 Meas:
HC (PPM) Meas (52 Max):
CO % Meas (0.49 Max):
NOx (PPM) Meas (730 Max):
Result:

Comments:
----------------------------
----------------------------




Example - right now I'm trying to smog my 95 PGT with a 2.0 KFZE V6 engine. Everything is 100% stock with a muffler shop OBDI catalytic converter (new), all emissions equipment in place and functional.

------------------------
Year: 1995
Engine size: 2.0 V6
Mileage: 142,500
Fuel grade: 89 octane
Transmission: manual
Ignition Timing: 10* BTDC
Visual (list failed items): none

15 MPH
RPM: 1806
%CO2 Meas: 14.4
%O2 Meas: 0.1
HC (PPM) Meas (87 Max): 173
CO % Meas (0.51 Max): 0.76
NOx (PPM) Meas (701 Max): 73
Result: FAIL


25 MPH
RPM: 2881
%CO2 Meas: 14.7
%O2 Meas: 0.3
HC (PPM) Meas (52 Max): 17
CO % Meas (0.49 Max): 0.01
NOx (PPM) Meas (730 Max): 1363
Result: FAIL

Comments - I am really flabbergasted by the massive discrepancy in NOx emissions from 15 to 25 mph. The exact opposite happened with the HC emissions, so I can't draw any conclusions yet till I do a little more reading.

Edit - checked for codes and I came up with 25 (Fuel Pressure Solenoid), and after changing it the CEL went off. Readjusted TPS (fan method), rechecked timing (now at 8* BTDC, before it was at 10*) and tomorrow I'll try again.
----------------------------
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Last edited by Dan [Sac]; August 27th, 2008 at 10:03 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2008, 10:33 PM   #13
Quicksilver
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Location: fresno, ca
Age: 36
Posts: 3,929
Year: 1995
Engine size:2.5L KLZE
Mileage: 128493
Fuel grade:87
Transmission: manual
Ignition Timing: 10 BTC
Visual (list failed items): none

15mph
RPM: 1649
%CO2 Meas: 14.11
%O2 Meas: 0.35
HC (PPM) Meas (87 Max): 43
CO % Meas (0.51 Max): 0.04
NOx (PPM) Meas (701 Max): 0563

25mph
RPM: 2615
%CO2 Meas: 14.36
%O2 Meas: 0.27
HC (PPM) Meas (52 Max): 21
CO % Meas (0.49 Max): 0.02
NOx (PPM) Meas (730 Max): 0653
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 07:12 PM   #14
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Additional KL03 Emissions testing procedures (if you need to troubleshoot your own car):

Here is some AllData info that may help others in the future:


EGR Solenoids Testing Procedure

EGR Solenoids Identification Information

EGR Solenoids Identification Information - this one has the vacuum ports ID'd as well

EGR Valve Testing Procedure

EGR valve sensor output data

KL Vacuum Diagram (everyone has this one)
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 09:50 PM   #15
ephwang
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Year: 1995
Engine size: 2.5
Mileage: 120,786
Fuel grade: Premium
Transmission: Manual
Ignition Timing: 10 BTDC
Visual (list failed items): None

15 MPH
RPM: 1706
%CO2 Meas: 15.0
%O2 Meas: 0.0
HC (PPM) Meas (88 Max): 39
CO % Meas (0.52 Max): 0.02
NOx (PPM) Meas (704 Max): 64
Result: PASS


25 MPH
RPM: 1966
%CO2 Meas: 14.9
%O2 Meas: 0.0
HC (PPM) Meas (53 Max): 9
CO % Meas (0.50 Max): 0.00
NOx (PPM) Meas (738 Max): 36
Result:

Comments: New catalytic converter installed. Test from August 2007. The Maximum allowable numbers are slightly different.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #16
rschroe
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Posts: 75
Year: 1993
Engine size: 2.5
Mileage: 116550
Fuel grade: Premium
Transmission: Manual
Ignition Timing: 10 BTDC
Visual (list failed items): None

15 MPH
RPM: 1690
%CO2 Meas: 13.9
%O2 Meas: 0.4
HC (PPM) Meas (87 Max): 186
CO % Meas (0.51 Max): 0.49
NOx (PPM) Meas (701 Max): 1243
Result: Fail


25 MPH
RPM: 2765
%CO2 Meas: 13.9
%O2 Meas: 0.3
HC (PPM) Meas (52 Max): 93
CO % Meas (0.49 Max): 0.44
NOx (PPM) Meas (730 Max): 849
Result: Fail

Comments: I suspect my catalytic converter needs to be replaced (116k miles!!!!). Compare my results with "Ephwang" and you will see the difference clearly, particularly with CO2 and O2. My ratio is smaller than with a working catalytic converter. Technically speaking, the oxygen in my exhaust gas is not being used for catalytic conversion. Otherwise there would be almost zero oxygen left. There is also considerable NOx in my exhaust stream indicating a faulty 2NOx → xO2 + N2 (1 out of 3 reactions) conversion. If my converter was working, but had a problem with my EGR valve (reducing NOx), I would have not failed in HC and would have reached a much better CO value! This is not the case, so I assume I am gonna have to get a new cat converter, they are cheap. Just bought one for 33!

Year:1993
Engine size:2.5L
Mileage:117341
Fuel graderemium
Transmission:Manual
Ignition Timing:10 BTDC
Visual (list failed items):None

15 MPH
RPM:1755
%CO2 Meas:14.5
%O2 Meas:0.0
HC (PPM) Meas (87 Max):30
CO % Meas (0.51 Max):0.01
NOx (PPM) Meas (701 Max):5
Resultass


25 MPH
RPM:2735
%CO2 Meas:14.6
%O2 Meas:0.0
HC (PPM) Meas (52 Max):14
CO % Meas (0.49 Max):0.00
NOx (PPM) Meas (730 Max):0
Resultass

Comments: So I retested with a new universal cat and these are my results. Finally passed! For all of you who suspect their EGR not working, look at my NOx and how they drop after the replacement ...

Last edited by rschroe; September 23rd, 2008 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Update Emission Values
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Old September 18th, 2008, 09:51 PM   #17
Dan [Sac]
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My 95 PGT finally passed, on its 7th try. I ended up changing the IM, TB, EGR, solenoids, and cat. Had a nigh NOx cat installed (basically an OBDII type with air injection) and the NOx went from 1100 to 42. So in the end it turns out that it was the cat at fault, even though 1) it was new, and 2) on my 93 PGT it was able to keep the NOx in check. It was an aftermarket OBDI cat though, so who knows. I guess there are duds once in a while.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 10:01 PM   #18
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Congrats Dan! I'm throwing in my new cat tomorrow, then go retest. Got your results? Post them if ya don't mind ...

Ron
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Old September 19th, 2008, 09:44 AM   #19
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i never liked using aftermarket cats. when i replaced mine on the silver car, my emissions always stayed just under the requirements. if you run into this issue again dan, just borrow my stock OEM cat. it willl do the job.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 05:55 PM   #20
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I had a Random Tech cat and the numbers were slowly climbing. Last smog I decided not to chance it and threw on a new Walker cat.
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Old September 26th, 2008, 02:14 PM   #21
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Failed smog, what to look at?

Here are my readings

@15mph

RPM - 1714
%CO2 - Meas. 15
%O2 - Meas. 0
HC PPM - Max 89, Meas. 117
CO % - Max 0.53, Meas 0.19
NO PPM - Max 708, Meas. 197

@25mph
RPM 2764
%CO2 - Meas 15
%O2 - Meas 0
HC PPM - Max 54, Meas. 48
CO% - Max 0.51, Meas. 0.11
NO PPM - Max 746, Meas. 55
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Old May 1st, 2009, 11:05 AM   #22
tnovello
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failed smog baddddddly

Year:1993
Engine size:2.5
Mileage:160,000
Fuel grade:89
Transmission:5spd
Ignition Timing: 2 btdc
Visual (list failed items):nothing

15 MPH
RPM:1750
%CO2 Meas:14.1
%O2 Meas:0.7
HC (PPM) Meas (87 Max):137
CO % Meas (0.51 Max):0.68
NOx (PPM) Meas (701 Max):2079
Result:
GP

25 MPH
RPM:2015
%CO2 Meas:14.3
%O2 Meas:0.6
HC (PPM) Meas (52 Max):129
CO % Meas (0.49 Max):0.59
NOx (PPM) Meas (730 Max):1894
Result:GP

Comments:
----------------------------
----------------------------
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Old May 1st, 2009, 12:58 PM   #23
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HC=probably need a different cat (and do you have the OEM snorkel?) - not sure about the NOx failure.
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Old May 1st, 2009, 03:09 PM   #24
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set the timing to 10*btdc
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probe is sold, now i have what the probe was suppose to replace, but ironically replaced my probe
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 02:20 AM   #25
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Pollock Pines
Age: 45
Posts: 11,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
set the timing to 10*btdc


yep i'm starting with setting the timing to 10btdc and resetting the tps, and fixing the leark in the im.. that should be a good start.
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