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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Performance Discussion of Performance topics for V6 2.5L

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Old February 5th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #51
Stanced4lyfe
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Originally Posted by Mike 99 View Post
I remember looking at the Vr6 awhile ago. Check the compression height, I seem to recall it was way off. Also being a German part it cost more than custom pistons.

I pulled the trigger on Wiseco's. I have a new (yes new) block, so I went with 84.5mm pistons (stock bore, not oversize), -11 cc, 0.030" offset wrist pins. Wiseco part number WD-04479.
Yeah I checked and asked wouldn't work. How much the wisecos cost you? I've been meaning to fill out custom forms for piston companies to see prices.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #52
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$144 per cylinder
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Old March 15th, 2017, 05:39 AM   #53
jimmy hotrod
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Originally Posted by KLZE Porsche View Post
The Honda pistons that I have -are floating pin and have spiral locks.
Hey,

I'm looking to do the same thing with these pistons, how have you got on with them so far?

I'm wondering if we could get away with just using a thicker head gasket to take into account the taller piston? lots of people run positive piston / deck setups by using this method...
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Old March 15th, 2017, 06:41 AM   #54
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I'm guessing you already noticed that the honda rods are 0.935 wide on the pin end and the kl rods are 0.835, does this concern you? thats quite a large increase in clearance. the bending load on the pin will be increased because of this.

going back to my comments on gaskets, i'm sure you've also heard of using solid copper head gaskets, this would seeminly be an ideal solution as you can choose many thicknesses.

if copper isnt your thing, aluminium is widley used for decompression plates for alloy block / head engines along with a single head gasket.

so if we used a 1mm thick decompression plate and a stock head gasket then i think we might have solved the compression height issue...
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by jimmy hotrod View Post
I'm guessing you already noticed that the honda rods are 0.935 wide on the pin end and the kl rods are 0.835, does this concern you? thats quite a large increase in clearance. the bending load on the pin will be increased because of this.

going back to my comments on gaskets, i'm sure you've also heard of using solid copper head gaskets, this would seeminly be an ideal solution as you can choose many thicknesses.

if copper isnt your thing, aluminium is widley used for decompression plates for alloy block / head engines along with a single head gasket.

so if we used a 1mm thick decompression plate and a stock head gasket then i think we might have solved the compression height issue...
Hey Jimmy!

I got the block bored -but I have another engine on the stand at the moment. As soon as I complete the current build -that one is next up.

As for the rod width difference -I don't consider it to be a significant issue (unless I was going to be pushing 500+ hp ...Not on this one!) -as this is only .05" per side

As for the head gasket idea (or actually spacer with the large difference) -I would rather shave the block to the desired height to avoid having to possibly use two head gaskets per bank (block/gasket/spacer/gasket/head). I don't like the idea of having more than one variable thickness void on a torqued surface -where the torque method is goofy anyway (torque/90deg/90deg). I think no matter which way I choose -there may still be complications.

Shaving the block to the desired height may end up causing loss of gasket sealing surface. That is one thing that I will be measuring when I mock it up. I plan to put one stock KL piston in one TDC cylinder and then in an opposed TDC cylinder -the Honda setup -to compare measurements.

It may be entirely necessary to shave the block -as well as using a thicker copper head gasket to get the desired deck height.
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Last edited by KLZE Porsche; March 15th, 2017 at 09:33 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:33 AM   #56
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That's good to hear about the rod thickness.

The comp height of the Honda piston is 30mm and the comp height of the kl is 29mm, if using a Milli rod or K1 etc then the piston will stick out the deck 1mm more than the kl piston right?

The solid gaskets can be used without a conventional head gasket or if using an aluminium decompression plate, it is recommended that you use only one gasket but use a sealant on the metal to metal seal.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

How do the valves line up with the valve pockets?
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:38 AM   #57
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...How do the valves line up with the valve pockets?
That is my largest concern. The Honda pockets are a smaller diameter. I really do not want to machine the tops of the pistons for valve clearance -and thus losing the benefit of the teflon cop coating (or whatever it is). I figure if these are supposed to be turbo pistons for Honda's -the H guys would be installing larger valves. And the pistons should be designed to allow for this.

So I won't actually know until I mock up and put some silly putty on top of a piston and rotate it through the movements.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #58
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Hurry up and putty that thing so I can order my pistons hahaha!

I was talking with a work colegue who has made a cutting tool from a valve before, dummy built the head onto the engine and used the valve guide to control the tool location! You just need a drill to drive the valve / cutting tool!
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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:48 AM   #59
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Hurry up and putty that thing so I can order my pistons hahaha!

I was talking with a work colegue who has made a cutting tool from a valve before, dummy built the head onto the engine and used the valve guide to control the tool location! You just need a drill to drive the valve / cutting tool!
I did very similar to make a valve seat surfacing tool. It actually works quite well! Sometimes the Jerry-rigging (or red-necking) method makes sense!

I have some NASCAR 6mm stem TI valves that would make a good KL piston valve relief cutting tool. You just have to make sure that there are no micro machined bits-n-pieces present when you move the piston in the bore! The only major drawback to cutting your own reliefs this way -is that there is no real good way of cutting the reliefs to a high tolerance depth. You can end up with varying compression from cylinder to cylinder.
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Last edited by KLZE Porsche; March 15th, 2017 at 09:57 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:25 PM   #60
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sucks we dont have better aftermarket support
That is simply because probe owners in general are cheap bastards who does not want to pay for parts. If there a market here, it would be filled
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Old March 16th, 2017, 03:12 AM   #61
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I did very similar to make a valve seat surfacing tool. It actually works quite well! Sometimes the Jerry-rigging (or red-necking) method makes sense!

I have some NASCAR 6mm stem TI valves that would make a good KL piston valve relief cutting tool. You just have to make sure that there are no micro machined bits-n-pieces present when you move the piston in the bore! The only major drawback to cutting your own reliefs this way -is that there is no real good way of cutting the reliefs to a high tolerance depth. You can end up with varying compression from cylinder to cylinder.
You could control cutting depth by making a thick washer with radial grub screw to have a stopper!

Any chance you could weigh a piston for me? I've been told that the piston weight should always be less than rod weight...
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Old March 19th, 2017, 09:39 AM   #62
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I have ordered some klze pistons, I'm hoping that my 10.5mm lift cams will clear with the ze valve pockets in the pistons, does anyone have experience here?

I still might go the Honda route in future if this doesn't work. I'm also hoping to increase compression further by milling the heads but I need to confirm piston valve clearances...
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Old March 23rd, 2017, 11:19 AM   #63
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Hey, do you know what the compression height is on gen 1 hayabusa pistons?
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Old March 23rd, 2017, 08:39 PM   #64
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Some good info
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