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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Discussion of Maint Issues for V6

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Old September 15th, 2017, 08:21 AM   #26
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My money is on the throw out bearing. I think my master is finally taking a dump with the brake going to the floor yet my clutch still works perfectly. Also another thing to check is your inspection plate. Check for any wetness, I had a different car at one point where the input shaft seal was leaking. However that did not affect shifting but did make a mess.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 08:59 AM   #27
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Thanks for suggestions guys. Could you help me understand how would either master cylinder or throw out bearing would stop me from switching the gear.

I am able to switch gears when the engine is not running... I am trying to understand what is going on.

Replacing the throw out bearing is not a very easy job to ge to it on my own as I understand so if I can avoid it and have car running for a few more months that would be great.

Also, what's an inspection plate?

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Old September 16th, 2017, 01:18 PM   #28
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clutch release bearing

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Old September 16th, 2017, 03:15 PM   #29
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Right... It looks like everything is point to that bearing, clutch release or throw out, whatever it is called.

I still would like to understand the mechanism. What is different when engine is running and when it is not. Why I am able to switch gears when engine is not running and what is not letting me do so when it is?
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Old September 16th, 2017, 06:22 PM   #30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY
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Old September 16th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #31
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Clutch master is relatively easy and I believe $40 at the parts store. If it solves your problem then you can drive it again. I've had 2 slaves and a master go in 35k miles, never had the clutch or bearings fail. Okay if it is the bearings... why would pumping the pedal bring the pedal back up to height. Whereas an internally leaking master the fluid would return to the correct side of the plunger. $40 dollars and 20-30 minutes, OR major disassembly and a lot more down time for even more weeks waiting on much more expensive parts. All to find out you needed a clutch master in the first place. not arguing just giving my rationale.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 09:03 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Unit View Post
Thanks for the video, but I think it doesn't quite tell me why I cannot shift into the gear then the engine is running an can when it's not.

BLUEnoEQ
I agree that this is something I should try and I will, I just wanna learn more in parallel to getting myself replace the master.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 10:11 AM   #33
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Throw out bearing is sheared or something. My 94 did something similar when I forgot to put the throwout bearing back in after a clutch job. You cant change gears because the clutch can't move far enough to disengage from the flywheel because there's play between the bearing and clutch, bet if you pull all that shit out do the clutch and the bearing you'll be kosher.

Do the main seal if you haven't get and don't forget to put that throwout bearing back in I found out the hard way lol.
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Old September 19th, 2017, 10:46 AM   #34
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OK, I started looking at the master cylinder and now I am confused.

I though master cylinder was the reservoir and the "cylinder" it is mounted on where I put brake fluid:

http://www.rockauto.com/info/738/738...07_1__ra_p.jpg

But I also find a part called clutch master cylinder :

http://www.rockauto.com/info/32/39937__ra_p.jpg

Do I even have this second part, where is it? and When you advice to replace which one do you advice to replace?
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Old September 19th, 2017, 02:00 PM   #35
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Look for the rubber hose, coming off the brake master, and follow that off the driver's side to the clutch master, much smaller, no reservoir on top if it. second picture is correct
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Old September 20th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #36
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Thanks. Now that I have embarrassed myself by publicly admitting that I though brake and clutch mater cylinders are same, the clutch master cylinder being the potential culprit for my problem seems more possible. Now I understand why someone suggested that the oil stain on my carper is probably leaky clutch master cylinder. This is what I will do most probably tomorrow. Autozone seems to have it in stock.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 11:55 PM   #37
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Ha ha, I kept making sure not to just say master cylinder for that reason. It's okay though pretty much everyone on here has had moments like that. If they haven't they're new.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 02:48 PM   #38
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I watched that nut removal video like 100 times, hung upside down under the dash under steering wheel until deesy and still cannot find the clutch master cylinder inside nut. Can anybody help me locate it. What is it next too. Pictures would help too. Thanks.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 05:18 PM   #39
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Did you read my description above? There's a white blockey plastic thing blocking the view of the Bolt that goes through the firewall. You're not looking for a nut... nut is on the outside under the hood, it's a bolt on the inside. The plastic thing has 2 gold nuts holding it on, remove those and slide the block. You should be able to see the head of the bolt then.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 05:18 PM   #40
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Thanks a lot for all the hints... I went in again with more confidence and actually squeezed in a 12 inch wrench lug on about a foot long extension and poked for the nut head. When I felt like I grabbed something I started loosening and that was it... reversed the procedure for putting it back... poked for extruding bolt and started tightning...


I will bleed it tomorrow and hope for the best... Will update you later.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 08:41 PM   #41
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Make sure brake master reservoir is topped up, open bleeder screw, (on slave,) flop pedal with your hand many times close bleeder screw. Works for me. You might want to check on the other fluids too. The suspense is killing me
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Old September 25th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #42
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OK. I bled the system... but I am sorry, I will have to keep you waiting for the ultimate answer... because my battery is dead (dies easily, I need a new one) so I will only start engine tomorrow...

I am keeping my fingers crossed...
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Old September 25th, 2017, 06:31 PM   #43
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Ha! I guess I'll have to wait some more.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 12:52 PM   #44
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well. bad news... still cannot switch to the gear... I will make a video of slave cylinder pushing the clutch lever for you too see if it goes far enough...

I mean, when problem first happened, I was able to drive the car home, and it was letting me switch the gears... what happened during me replacing the cylinders? Did I still have to bleed it more?
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Old September 26th, 2017, 08:30 PM   #45
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Definitely bleed it again, just to be 100% sure. If that doesn't do it then it's the throwout bearing or something else in the bellhousing. Don't get discouraged though if it is. There's plenty of info on here on how to do just about anything.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 12:44 PM   #46
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Maybe this is the explanation you are looking for..

The reason why you can not switch gears with the engine running is because: as long as the clutch throwout (release) bearing is gone bad, the clutch pressure plate can not disengage the transmission input shaft from spinning. The bearing can get collapsed (become too short), sheared-down, or lock up when damaged. If the transmission input shaft rotation is not stopped, the brass synchronizer gears will not properly mesh together when 1-5 gear switching is attempted. If the synchros don't mesh, the gears dont engage. They would instead grind and possibly shear teeth off if forced.
If the bearing is good, (assuming all the hydraulic components are in good order) then when the pedal is depressed, the throw out bearing can do the job of taking up the required distance to push that pressure plate in far enough to disengage the clutch friction disk; effectively stopping or reducing rotational input from the engine. Once the transmission is "disconnected" from the engine's rotation, the synchronizer gears will properly mesh and allow your main 1-5 gear set to switch seamlessly.

The squealing "metal-on-metal" sound commonly heard from a bad clutch throw out bearing is caused by the steel ball/needle bearings within the bearing housing becoming stuck and no longer able to roll. The housing around the inner ball bearings becomes deformed under this enormous heat and friction of being stuck. Once the seized bearing assembly is projected inward toward the pressure plate, instead of gliding easily and supporting the pressure plate levers, it no longer spins freely and will just eat away at those spring lever fingers ( and SQUEEEAAL)
Smoke can also develop from this particular metal grinding or from the clutch friction disk being partially engaged against the pressure plate, or a combination of both. Let's hope the smoke isn't coming from the operator's ears! One must then keep their cool and extract the transmission for moderate servicing of the clutch system and maybe the axle output seals.

I hope this is informative and enlightening.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 01:36 PM   #47
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I started typing the same thing up a few days ago but never got back around to it. As stated above is exactly right. Money is on the throw out. It has been a while since I have been underneath the probe but don't we have an inspection plate at the bottom of the trans that he can remove to see it or possibly some debris from shearing at the bottom of the bellhouse?
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 03:52 PM   #48
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There is an inspection plate there at the bottom of the trans held on by what i think is 3 14mm bolts if i remember right. You will break at least one taking it off (don't worry about it you only need 2 ).

But in all reality, its time to park it somewhere where you can work, jack it up, get the front on jack stands, and start taking the trans out. Buy yourself a cheep transmission jack for around $100 from Ebay or Harbor Freight to help get it in and out of the car. You will be able to lift it yourself, but i don't recommend bench pressing it in and out by yourself, the jack will make your life much easier. Also i would get a cheap but strong impact wrench to make some things easier like axle nuts and cross member bolts.

I know you can do it if you try. I Had no idea what I was doing when I did mine, it was my first time ever doing a transmission on anything. I had my Haynes manual and Travis Williams post on here to go by and i just took my time and did it. After you complete the job, you will feel like a new man driving a new car. Good luck!
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Old October 11th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #49
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Thank you guys for the fantastic explanation and all the encouragement.

I am convinced that I need to replace the throw out bearing and now I will need your further guidance to build up confidence to it.

For example:
1. How high should I jack up the front of the car?
2. Do I roll out the removed transmission from the bottom? So i simply drop it not lift it up through the engine bay somehow? (I know its a stupid question but still )

I am going to start on it this weekend and will keep you posted as I progress...
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Old October 11th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #50
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The trans will come out of the bottom. There are some good write ups on here on the process. I've had mine out a few years back and completely rebuilt one on an eclipse I had a few years ago. It's not really that difficult, took my time and it took about a day. Then again I have experience working on cars as well. If you can change your brakes and struts I'm confident you can tackle the trans. Some may think it's a bad comparison but hey you set your mind to it you'll get it done. After all you are not disassembling it, just removing the thing to expose the clutch. I do however would recommend replacing the clutch, throw out, and a fidanza or lighter flywheel while you have it apart. You will be glad you did.

Get the vehicle up a good amount so you have room to get under the car and enough room for the trans to be removed from under the car. I'll be here as long as I'm sure others will as well for any farther questions you may have. You will be fine, just take your time and don't sweat it.

Also at the top of the forum in this section is a sticky of how to change your own clutch thread. Just read over it and it's pretty straight forward. Although any questions beyond that feel free to ask.
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