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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Discussion of Maint Issues for V6

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Old November 5th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #1
iraklic
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Angry Clutch problem and smoking

Little history:

Car has been making squealing noises from clutch, it would somewhat stop after warm up and noise would change depending on weather clutch was depressed or released.

Also (may be unrelated), a month ago CEL started showing up, codes VRIS and EGR.

So today when driving at some point it got hard to switch gear and then clutch was not coming up. After some time clutch came up but if depressed for a few seconds engine would stall and clutch would stay down and then some pumping would bring it up.

I drove home by very very quickly changing gears when needed and trying not to stop. When clutch depressed to keep engine running I had to have gas pressed and during that time car would smoke. I am guessing from clutch.

Also, I think I have been loosing coolant? I may be imagining things now with everything.

If someone can make sense of all this and help me with my problem that would be fantastic.

Thanks.
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Old November 5th, 2016, 05:12 PM   #2
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I'm pretty sure the clutch is unrelated to the other two problems. Sounds like air in the clutch line that needs bleeding?

And the VRIS and EGR codes won't be related to coolant loss either.
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Old November 5th, 2016, 05:34 PM   #3
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Check for a leaking clutch slave or master cylinder.
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Old November 5th, 2016, 07:52 PM   #4
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I will check the cylinders.

Any idea why was the clutch smoking?
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Old November 6th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #5
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If you're on the brake and the clutch is not fully disengaged/ing you're going to heat it up. Check for a vacuum leak for the VRIS, EGR stuff.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 05:54 AM   #6
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Also, if you've never replaced the rubber clutch line (under the battery) check that for moisture. They normally develop a pin hole and spray fluid around in that area.

Those are common to leak and cause pedal pressure and engagement issues.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 08:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEnoEQ View Post
If you're on the brake and the clutch is not fully disengaged/ing you're going to heat it up
Thanks, that makes sense. And that is why engine was stalling because even though I had my foot on clutch it was not disengaging.

So I am going to check the cylinders today, but what is the most probable culprit for clutch not disengaging?
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Old November 7th, 2016, 02:13 PM   #8
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It could be either one. Check your brake reservoir to see if it's low too. My brake light blinked at me once, a brief flash in rush hour traffic (while everything was hot,) and that was the only warning I got when my slave cylinder went within a day or two. Symptom number 2 the pedal did nothing. There is a possibility of an internal leak. Slave cylinders are cheap and easy to do. Never done the master before, looks like a complete pain.
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Old November 8th, 2016, 09:07 AM   #9
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Oh wait, so the master cylinder is the same thing as the brake fluid reservoir? is the clutch and brake supplied from same reservoir and same brake fluid?
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Old November 8th, 2016, 12:09 PM   #10
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Yep same fluid reservoir.
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Old November 9th, 2016, 05:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Oh wait, so the master cylinder is the same thing as the brake fluid reservoir? is the clutch and brake supplied from same reservoir and same brake fluid?
Yes as said previously. And if it gets a little bit low -your clutch will go! Definitely sounds like either low fluid or air in system. Fill and bleed!

Pray that it is not the clutch master gone bad! Inside nut is a biatch nut!
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Last edited by KLZE Porsche; November 9th, 2016 at 05:21 AM.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 11:59 AM   #12
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Well my brake fluid is full. So I am guessing it is either the slave cylinder of I am screwed and my clutch or transmission is gone bad. By the way so if master cylinder is same as brake fluid reservoir then would brake stop working if that goes bad?
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Old November 13th, 2016, 02:00 PM   #13
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It's not your clutch or your transmission. It's either the master or the slave. If your clutch was bad it wouldn't hold the car or it would slip when trying to move it. If it's not leaking fluid then it's leaking around the seal internally. Which means replacement. If you do end up doing the master replace both, the slave is so cheap, it's not worth having to bleed it twice.
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Last edited by BLUEnoEQ; November 13th, 2016 at 02:01 PM.
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Old November 17th, 2016, 09:29 PM   #14
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It's your throw out bearing. Time for a new clutch kit. Mine did the same thing. The squealing that changes some what when you push the clutch in is the pressure plate grinding against the throw out bearing that's not moving anymore and being ripped to shreds. Sorry, time to remove the trans, its not too bad.

i.imgur.com/MHRnGrF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WsSXGbA.jpg

don't worry about your 2 check engine codes until you fix the clutch, there not a big deal.

If your losing coolant, I'm guessing its coming from the water pump because that will more than likely be the first thing to fail. see if you have a coolant puddle by the passenger side front wheel - AFTER you fix your clutch. Removing the trans is not as hard as it sounds. I bought a transmission jack to help lower and lift it into the car which made life easy.

Last edited by J_Unit; November 18th, 2016 at 08:18 AM.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #15
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J_Unit, I am afraid you are right. Do I have to lift the entire car for that? How high?

The weather is finally nice here so I actually just removed the battery and air box to have a look at the slave cylinder. Where the hack is it?

By the way, when engine is not running, the I can press clutch and it come back normally, there is some squealing noise though, that has been there for years, it's like the hinge needs to be oiled or something. When engine is running there is lots of hissing from throw out bearing and when I press clutch engine is about to stall. I did not keep it pressed but it felt like engine would stall.

I still harbor a hope that clutch removal will not be necessary, but if it will I might need all the help there is. Even if anyone knows a reliable shop on long island or lives near me I would be glad to know.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 05:29 AM   #16
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1. our clutch pedal is hydraulic. The reservoir has 3 chambers, the clutch chamber can leak down without the brake chambers dropping too low.
2. the smoking while pushing the clutch in and revving the motor was you burning your clutch disk as it was partially engaging.
3. follow the line by the motor mount under the distributor...that's where the slave is.

Even if you don't see a leak, either the slave, the rubber line, or the master is leaking.
If nothing else, replace the master AND the slave. For an easier time of getting the master off, go to youtube and watch my video of how to pull the inside the dash nut.... just look up TheSidneySmith and you'll find the video
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Old February 21st, 2017, 07:46 AM   #17
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Oh so the slave cylinder is on the other side under the disty? That would explain some oily liquid under there which I was sure is neither oil nor coolant but couldn't explain what could have been there. This give me little hope. I will check it out.

One more thing is, as I mentioned by clutch pedal has been squeaky for quite some time, and long time ago when it has just started being squeaky I noticed ad oily dark spot on my mat there, which I could not attribute to anything and I actually though that during the oil change they put some grease up there to grease up the pedal. Could it be something leaking down the pedal and that's why it is squeaky?
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Old February 21st, 2017, 06:34 PM   #18
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if there is a leak on the carpet....the clutch master is leaking.....so you need to get both a master and slave
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Old February 24th, 2017, 08:20 AM   #19
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SuperSquid, the carpet got greasy at some point about two years ago, but there are not new stains since, can it be some other problem? Also, if the master was leaking wouldn't i notice the level to go down. My level stays normal, I only have to add just a little bit every two years or so.

Another question: what is the best way to get to the slave cylinder, from top or bottom? Shoul I remove disty or the passenger wheel and go from underneath?
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:04 AM   #20
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Go from the top, its fairly easy to get to from the top. I don't think i have ever removed any other components to install/remove the slave. Changing the master cylinder is going to make you hate your probe.

If i remember right, the vacuum box will be in the way and you have to unbolt and just move it out of your way. There is one bolt that is nearly impossible to get to by the clutch pedal unless your some kind of contortionist. I wound up using a gator grip (one size fits all) socket on that bolt so i could take it out blindly, worked well for me, but whatever works for you. I'll probably give Squids method a try next time i have to do it.

The squeaking of the clutch pedal itself is unfortunately somewhat normal for our cars. I think people just use lubricant on it to shut it up for a while, i haven't done nothing to mine yet.

I don't know how far I had my car jacked up exactly when I first removed the trans for my first clutch job. http://i.imgur.com/GKs8GXL.jpg but this is an image you can reference. and look it could be worse, you could be working in a giant ice pond trying to do all this lol.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 10:05 AM   #21
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thanks J_Unit. I'll give it a try from top and WOOW that must have been hard to work in that giant ice pond
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Old September 9th, 2017, 09:23 AM   #22
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I have finally found time to get to this problem. I removed the slave cylinder. I ordered a new one and will be replacing it when it arrives.

Is there a way of telling that it is bad by looking at it or something? I pushed a clutch pedal before I start removing and it seemed to go down and up normally.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhfINrj0_fdIgesBZYOFi6ybzNYCLQ

Does the system work differently when the engine is running and not running? Is it possible that the pedal comes up for some reason when engine is not running and does not when it is?

Also, if it was a throwout bearing, would it come up today?

Should the clutch lever (that slave cylinder pushed) wiggle? Here is a video:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhfINrj0_fdIgesAQ9W_Z3egizZXgw
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Old September 14th, 2017, 02:07 PM   #23
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Update:

I replaced the slave cylinder. Bled it.
Put everything together. Started the engine after more then half a year sitting. It started with some squealing and smoke. But then smoke cleared and engine ran with normal idle.

When pressing the clutch pedal it squeals. And engine starts to stall.

I am not able to switch gears when engine is running.

Can it be that I didn't bleed enough and it is not pressing far enough to separate clutch plate and let me switch gears?

I know my throwout bearing is bad, but can it be THE problem or something else may be cooperating with it not letting me switch gears?
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Old September 14th, 2017, 10:06 PM   #24
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You can try bleeding it again, but I think it's your clutch master that's bad. It's not too bad if you have the right extension length to get the one nut on the firewall between the brake master and the brake booster 10 11 or 12mm can't remember which. Then, flip yourself up side down, with the driver's seat back and reclined steering wheel tilted up remove the white plastic box with 2 gold nuts holding it on by the clutch pedal (under dash and up) 10mm I think and then the bolt going through to the CMC. Pinch the hose clamp on the supply line from the brake master, pull off and the clutch master cylinder should be free. Reverse to install, no bleeding necessary if it's already good from before. Add fluid to the brake reservoir if necessary.
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Last edited by BLUEnoEQ; September 14th, 2017 at 10:08 PM. Reason: fluid
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Old September 15th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #25
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Does it sound like this when you engage the clutch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irfBio-gpj0

If so its your throw out bearing and it would look like the one on the right

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...T/IMG_5607.jpg
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