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2nd Gen (93-97) V6 2.5L Discussion of Maint Issues for V6

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Old August 30th, 2001, 02:32 PM   #1
Bleserschmitt
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Okay guys, I honestly need help here.

You might remember my sad story from a few months back. I took my car to a local Ford dealer to get new valve cover gaskets, and after that job which only took one day, my car has been hell on earth. Right after I drove it off the lot I noticed a power drop, a BIG power drop. Not only that, but over 3.5K the engine just sounded REALLY loud, like it was going to just blow up around 6.5K. Never has it been loud like this!

So, I took it back to them, and in a three and a half week period they replaced my catalytic conveter, knock sensor, valve selonoids, tired a new mass airflow sensor (which they claim did nothing so they put the old one back on), the list goes on but of course in no detail. They admitted to me that there is a problem but they didn't know what. After the 3.5 week period, the car REALLY runs like shit. The power issue is no better (by the way, I have dynos to prove the problems, I'll post below), and now the idle is horrible. If the a/c is off, it will idle fine for 15 seconds, then drop off to about 100RPM for a bit (for what seems like no reason) and then back up to 650, and run rough thereafter. Another thing it does is hard to explain. IF the engine is hot, and you go to eat somewhere, after you come out (after lettign the car sit for 30 or so minutes) and start the car and turn on the A/C, the RPM will jump up and down from 2K down to 100RPM, until it dies. It repeatedly does this pendulum thing until after a minute or so of driving, and then it is fine. VERY ODD.

I've had another shop look at it (not a Ford place) and they said "it's running rich, the timing is very advanced, and we don't know how to fix it." They said if you back the timing off it doens't even run. I can sometimes even smell my car when sitting a stoplight!

ALL FOR NEW VALVE COVER GASKETS?? They also replaced my fuel filter, but they claim that is not part of my problems.

Ford is stumped, other shops are stumped, I'm stumped, and NEED HELP!!!!

Thank you for taking the time to ready this, and I hope someone can help me.

Highlight the following link and post it a new window, it won't work if you click on it.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...nce=0&res=high

The blue line is before this whole mess, and the red line is now.
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Old August 30th, 2001, 02:46 PM   #2
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It really sounds to me like there is a huge vacuum leak somewhere, like they forgot to hook something back up or they broke something. It really wouldn't surprise me if they missed a vacuum line, because there are alot of lines to remove when you remove the intake manifold, which they would have to do in order to get to the rear VCG. I'd take the car back to the shop and tell them to check every single vacuum line in the entire car!!! Tell them you don't care if there are like 650 of them in the car, they smurfed up your car, they are going to take care of it! Other than that, make sure the VAF connector (the wires on the intake elbow, near the air box) are good and snug. But, really it sounds like a vacuum leak. Good luck.

Also, tell them to check the entire intake track, starting from the outside intake before the airbox and stopping right at the end of the intake runners. It is a possibility that there is a blockage somewhere along the line that is not allowing your car to get enough air, hence creating the bad running and very rich condition.
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Old August 30th, 2001, 03:15 PM   #3
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Actually, I've had the vaccum lines checked numerous times and they are all okay. Both VRIS valves are working as they should be and everythign else checks out fine. If you look at the dyno plot, the power curve basically follows the exact pattern, just at a lower scale.

They claims they took off the intake manifold twice, used mirrors and such to check for blockage and cound't find anything.

Believe me, I've beat this horse to death and it is only getting worse.
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Old August 30th, 2001, 04:48 PM   #4
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This will take some time to finish...

Get a bright flash light, a mechanics mirror and start scrutinizing every electrical connection and wire in and around the IM and Valve covers...Look for anything odd, liked crimped wire covers, or wires, cuts abbrasions...

From what you describe it seems like an electrical device is not functioning...Like the IAC which controls your idle quality with or without accessories in use...The TPS and CPS and last but not least check for correct voltage from the disty...
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Old August 30th, 2001, 05:17 PM   #5
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Dude, do what Rick says with the flashlight and mirror. Pay particular attention to the throttle body area. Make sure they plugged your ISC back up. No crimped or pinched wires or vacuum lines. Look carefully around the VRIS and purge solenoids to make sure they didn't break one of the nipples off. It has to be something they removed when they took the IM off.

After that stand on the service manager's chest and demand they fix your car. If that doesn't work go to the general manager then to his boss until you get some resolution. Go ballistic man!! The squeeky wheel get's the grease.
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Old August 30th, 2001, 05:41 PM   #6
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One more reason to never go to a Ford dealer for service.
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Old August 31st, 2001, 07:27 AM   #7
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Will any of the above have made my engine louder? I just think it is odd to have a louder engine after new VCG. Also, I'm kinda new to working on this engine (but I've had my car for over two years), so if someone could define each abbreviation above that would be great. THanks!
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Old August 31st, 2001, 07:27 AM   #8
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Also, how do I reset my computer?
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Old August 31st, 2001, 07:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
On Friday August 31, 2001 6:27 AM, Bleserschmitt wrote:
Will any of the above have made my engine louder?
Since you said your timing was off, that could be why your engine sounds louder.
Incorrect timing also makes your engine run hotter (doesn't necessarily mean you'll overheat).

Check this link for a list of abbreviations:
http://www.probetalk.com/forums/view...=18918&forum=9
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Old September 5th, 2001, 01:58 PM   #10
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I FIXED IT! HOLY SMURF I FIXED IT!

Okay guys, after just sitting and thinking and thinking and reading probetalk forums, I fixed my car.

I have the PRM CAI, and as some of you may know that if you push the PRM air filter in too far, it makes contact with the mass air flow sensor, sometimes even pushing it in. Well, back in June when the morons put my car back together, I noticed that they had it almost an inch too far in (my blue hose connector is cut back a little bit to make more room for the downpipe, so you have to have the filter in JUST the right place), pushing the mass air flow sensor in when the engine isn't even running. Not only that, but since they had the battery disconneted, the computer was re-set with these now crazy settings. I noticed the problem right away a couple months back and re-positioned the filter, but NEVER RESET THE COMPUTER! So even thought the filter was in the right place, the computer thought it wasn't.

Last Friday (8/31/01) I realized this and went out to my car to disconnect the battery, bleed the system with the brakelights, and let it sit for an hour or so disconnected. I also completely disassembled my air intake and put it back together how it should be. I then plugged everythign back in, connected the battery, and started it up...

PERFECT! The car ran 100x better instantly. It idles perfectly, no A/C problem, ALL my power is back (it actually feels faster), and the engine noise is back to normal. Not only that, but since then I have calculated my gas mileage and got the best I've ever gotten, 23MPG city driving (and I drive it pretty hard). I have never been so happy...after three months of wishing my car would wreck or blow up I now want to baby it more then ever before.

Now to modify her some more.... :grin:

DO NOT EVER GO TO FORD DEALERS!
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Old September 5th, 2001, 05:02 PM   #11
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Good job, I was warned of cutting the connector too short as well. Its funny how is was something so simple, glad to hear its over.
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Old September 5th, 2001, 05:09 PM   #12
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Now take your reciepts back to Ford and Demand a full refund for there incompetance....[img]/forums/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

Threaten to sue in Small Claims court if necassary...

Report this to the BBB, its the only way the consumer can track which businesses are good or bad...

Morons...
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Old September 5th, 2001, 06:50 PM   #13
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Its the SIMPLE things that make shit go wrong.Always! Too bad we cant trust the people who made our cars to work on it(they couldnt even put the smurf intake in right)
You wouldnt think the filter would be the problem because its too simple.(I guess people at ford think differently?)
People at Ford are strait up rednecks......
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Old September 12th, 2001, 04:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
On Friday August 31, 2001 12:41 AM, BCFidler wrote:
One more reason to never go to a Ford dealer for service.
Really, Im surprised about the horrid service these guys offer, they can make the car, but they cant fix it or find out whats wrong??? Have them re-emburse you, and dont take it back!
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