To make a KL V10 or V12?
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How much would it cost
Probe out for Harambe
94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdMTags: None
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Nice! I did not know that was 2 Gm v8s. I did look up a 350 based 12 cyl before this. I can't wait til 3d printing can get to this level.Probe out for Harambe
94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdM
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Actually -it would not be too difficult. You don't have to join them by welding or whatnot. All you would have to do is to fabricate an adapter hub that bolts to the back end of the crank and has a keyed hole in it that the crank nose slides into. Then it is just a matter of making adjustable brackets that secure them in-line and allow laser alignment tweaks. The hub would also need to function like a standard electric motor coupling (with some sort of built-in cushion).
I had thought about it in the past -but I already have too many projects on my plate.Success is a measure of determination!
Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
$500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
Restoration of a legend
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not trying to be negative about it but I dont think it would be worth the time or money and heres why
kl v6 motor 164hp -
kl v10 motor 273hp - you could get here with NOS or a higher compression
kl v12 motor 328hp - you could get here with turbo
kl doesnt make enough power to be a v6 engine
this the reason we got bent over and accepted the Probe lol (joke)
at its power level compared to other v6' our motor should have been a 2 cyl engine lol
yeah I know I skipped over 4cyl.
most 4 banger hondas make more power than we do
and most v6's are double what we make
next reason unless you converting to rwd v10 nor v12 would fit in fwd configuration
Last edited by P1P; August 11, 2017, 10:00 AM.
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It's not worth the time/money... but we're discussing it anyway. If I was going to go that far I wouldn't be using DE parts I would use ZE parts. I want to know if a KL V10 would/could sound as good as a Carrera GT or LFA. Probably would need a Titanium exhaust on it as well. 4.0l or so V10, 358hp-ish NA. V10 would probably need a balance shaft or something or some excellent split pin crank design. Turbo charged it could still sound good. It would have to be changed to longitudinal, intake enlarged, and lengthened to add runners. Probably need a timing chain conversion or wider belt and pulleys. It would be a lot of work no doubt.Probe out for Harambe
94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdM
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Originally posted by BLUEnoEQ View PostIt's not worth the time/money... but we're discussing it anyway. If I was going to go that far I wouldn't be using DE parts I would use ZE parts. I want to know if a KL V10 would/could sound as good as a Carrera GT or LFA. Probably would need a Titanium exhaust on it as well. 4.0l or so V10, 358hp-ish NA. V10 would probably need a balance shaft or something or some excellent split pin crank design. Turbo charged it could still sound good. It would have to be changed to longitudinal, intake enlarged, and lengthened to add runners. Probably need a timing chain conversion or wider belt and pulleys. It would be a lot of work no doubt.
to get the sound you are looking for you might be interested in a flat plane crank design rather than a cross plane crank
flat plane design is the reason Ferrari's sound so good
but if you really want to try something it might be more simple to take (2) I4's and make them in a V8 then use 180 degree headers and still get the sound and power you looking for
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the more I think about it the (2) I4 to a v8 I don't think would work unless you totally redesigned a new block and crank
but take 2 I-4's and make you a inline 8 would probably be better
Inline motors tend to have less vibration and less stress than v shapes engines
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We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.Probe out for Harambe
94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdM
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Originally posted by BLUEnoEQ View PostWe are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude.
I think that what they said in the V16 Devil article -is exactly true in all senses. You cannot just copy/paste two engines together easily. They ended up making an all new CNC billet block and crank. That is what it would take in nearly all cases like this.
That is why I suggested mating two together at the crank. But one thing is certain -the length would be astronomical and fitting into a smaller car isn't economical -when you can fit a smaller turbocharged engine into a smaller car.
But one option is somewhat viable that I have mentioned before in the past. It would be a purely -"do it" thing just to have a one-of-a-kind Probe with a fairly decent amount of power. If you could fit an identical KL motor/driveline into the back trunk area and somehow sync both engines with some very high tech electronics -you would not only have the potential of having two 400 hp turbocharged 2.5L engines (pseudo V12) -but also heavy duty all-wheel drive. Most all-wheel drive cars have some weak links (90 deg tail shaft rear transfer and small rear diff). Most of the rear diffs in AWD have micro-miniature ring-n-pinion gears in them and the tail transfer that bolts to the transaxle is also not extremely beefy. Not too many of them would stand up to 400 hp and the associated torque.
However, our glass tranny -when doubled up -would split the load they would have to apply the torque to and it would be somewhat like two Probes weighing in at less that 1500 lbs each. A lighter car puts less stress on a given transmission than would be a heavier car.
And then there is even yet another option. If you want V12 power -BMW made one that can be purchased rather cheaply wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M70. And Lexus has a V12 that also can be purchased somewhat cheaply (compared to other V12 powerplants). wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_GZ_engine However, building them might not be so cheap!Last edited by KLZE Porsche; August 12, 2017, 07:31 AM.Success is a measure of determination!
Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
$500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
Restoration of a legend
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Originally posted by KLZE Porsche View PostWho said dat? ^^^
But one option is somewhat viable that I have mentioned before in the past. It would be a purely -"do it" thing just to have a one-of-a-kind Probe with a fairly decent amount of power. If you could fit an identical KL motor/driveline into the back trunk area and somehow sync both engines with some very high tech electronics -you would not only have the potential of having two 400 hp turbocharged 2.5L engines (pseudo V12) -but also heavy duty all-wheel drive. Most all-wheel drive cars have some weak links (90 deg tail shaft rear transfer and small rear diff). Most of the rear diffs in AWD have micro-miniature ring-n-pinion gears in them and the tail transfer that bolts to the transaxle is also not extremely beefy. Not too many of them would stand up to 400 hp and the associated torque.
back in 1999 to 2000 Thomas at Knight Turbo told me he was experimenting with this same concept. but I think the problem he ran into was the design for the shift linkage with the 2 trannys
also I can't remember what car it was but someone actually did this setup don't quote me but i think it was a dodge neonLast edited by P1P; August 12, 2017, 08:17 AM.
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Originally posted by P1P View Postback in 1999 to 2000 Thomas at Knight Turbo told me he was experimenting with this same concept. but I think the problem he ran into was the design for the shift linkage with the 2 trannys...
So you might be able to duplicate a manual feel -but be totally controlled in shifting by electronics. This is how jet fighters handle the "feel" -since all flight controls require non-manual direct inputs due to forces (feedback) induced from higher speed drag on surfaces.
So they have what is called a "feel and trim actuator" It is a manual feeling feedback that is mechanically induced from non-direct linkage to flight control surfaces.
Basically it is like a variable spring attached to the stick to provide the same kind of "feel" that you would get from flying a Cessna that is manually connected from stick to surfaces.
You would have to do something similar to have both tranny's shift at the same time and with a synchronized clutch engagement.
Not by any means a cheap way of doing a V12 -but probably cheaper than doing a CNC billet block and crank.
---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------
Originally posted by P1P View PostSuccess is a measure of determination!
Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
$500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
Restoration of a legend
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"who said dat" Dr. Klahn from the "Fist full of yen" skit in Kentucky fried movie (now shown in feel around). A completely silly movie. It's from 1977 still funny today.
Yeah I've thought about the twin engine thing and I have a solution for the shifter linkages, custom cable to the front, custom or MR2 cable to the rear transmission connect the 2 by lever to a single lever and then adjust. Some fabrication required. As for the clutches a larger piston at the master that pushes 2x the volume to 2 regular slaves. Tough part would be the 2 exhausts and the rear engine exhaust length?
F-18s have the artificial feel thing on the later fly by wire E and F model. Tomcats had direct linkages running through the plane, but if you didn't have hydraulics you were going down anyway.
One of the ways I thought about hooking up 2 engines was with a regular clutch and flywheel between them. Make a crank pulley adapter that splines into the clutch. No accessories, electric waterpump, and timing belt on the second engine.
The idea wasn't necessarily for a Probe although a 10 cyl rwd Probe... and 358 hp na would be very close to what the twin turbo SHO V6 (ecoboost?) puts out. If it could be made and if there weren't additional losses somewhere in there.Probe out for Harambe
94 PGT KLZE http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/a...psr6dk8q1m.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauXMeITcdM
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