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FrankenProbe work log, 2010

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  • FrankenProbe work log, 2010

    So this is the last attempt I'll be making with the car at single digits, as the funding for this project has just about dried up.

    Right now I'm making new hot pipes for the Comp turbo, adding the 46mm wastegate, air/water intercooling, and the new cold pipes as well.

    I was looking at a few things about doing the hot pipes right (full mandrel everything, 321 Stainless, etc), and found out how quickly you can end up spending about $1,800 in parts and labor if you want professional quality results. I decided to pass, so I'll be doing my own welding.

    I'll be using Hotshot primaries, with 2" secondaries.

    For the front bank, I am using a rear bank Hotshot header, and will modify it to clear the OEM oil cooler (not going to move that, as fittings alone would be close to $200).

    The reason for this is to allow the rear secondary to come up front unimpeded by the front header flange and not having to do a very awkward merge between the banks, something that all kits thus far have shown.

    Initially I was going to use a merge collector, taking the two 2" secondaries and merging them into a 2.5" final pipe, formed at the end to fit the divided T4 turbine flange. This means the WG would be mounted on the last 2.5" pipe with an atmospheric dump.

    After some talk with a few shops the consensus is that I should just merge each of the 2" secondaries directly into the divided housing, so each half of the turbine would be fed by each bank. This is doable if I form the 2" pipes at the end into rectangles, and from a few minutes of tinkering it looks like it would work. The only downside of this is that I have to have the wastegate fed by each of the 2 secondaries, so either use 2 wastegates (no) or have merged wastegate feeds from each 2" secondary (yes).


    So today I got the welding gas filled up, and I should start welding tomorrow. It probably won't be pretty, but if the less than ideal Ludespeed design made 504 whp on a 38mm WG and 2.5" OD downpipe, I think my FrankenTubes should do well.

    I still have to look up some numbers and see if each bank can create enough velocity in a 2" pipe, but other than that it should be just sweat, blood and cursewords.

    The downpipe (not pictured) is 4"



    90 Mazda 323 - KLZE, fender-flared, right hand drive, 2350 lb fully loaded sex machine. || Pic Thread ||- SOLD
    93 PGT FRANKENPROBE - 10.24 @ 139.9 mph ||545 whp @ 20 psi || Timeslip || Dyno slip|| Build Thread - GONE
    97 GTS - Rear Wheel Drive KLZE, 6-speed, 3.90 Torsen LSD, 2650 lb, daily driver! - Build Thread - GONE
    90 Ghettocet KLiata - forever WIP

  • #2
    wow should be a good set up when your done. keep up the work!
    73k mile 93 PGTCold Air Intake, Pacesetter Headers, Pace Setter Monza Cat back, Resonated Test Pipe, EGR and VRIS delete *SOLD*
    1997 Gold PGT 85k miles Ebay headers, CAI
    1998 Subaru Outback Limited AWD 5spd. Winter car

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    • #3
      Yep, good luck hope you can get what you're after!
      Blue 94 PSE DD/Winter beater
      New Project: 93 PGT-T Loaded.http://forums.probetalk.com/showthre...&highlight=CDN
      Formerly known as CDN Pr0b3

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      • #4
        Looks like you have the new gearbox installed already. As far as you setup it sounds very interesting, I imagine you can get away with having the pipes be more functional for the car instead of being functional for the street since it will be a track car. It will be interesting to see this all come together especially after watching the 323 come together so nicely.

        When are you shooting to have FrankenProbe finished and back at the dyno?

        After a second look, it looks like you are making the front clip removable?
        ///M-POC
        SENSLES 448whp at 24psi Built by Me, Tuned by SHAODOME

        Flyrtle 6 - Best 2nd Gen Probe
        MMX - PRD BEST of Show and 1st Place Unlimited Class
        MM8 - PRD BEST of Show

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        • #5
          well good luck with the turbo kit i would think it would be to far from what i built lol sounds the same but you went with one gate should work great if it works like mine dose. so was the turbo and intercooler just fitted to test where they would go? kinda funny how small my turbo has turned out to be
          Last edited by lthomas2g; July 24, 2010, 09:31 AM.
          http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/2653387.png

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          • #6
            Sounds like a good build coming up. Have you looked at Burns's merge collcetors, Dan? I know they're not cheap, but they are muy bueno.
            Jesus is the remedy
            Black '94 GT DE/ZE hyrbid, too many parts to list
            Black '89 MX-6 GT AWS: T3/T4 turbo, 3" exhaust, big brakes, FD's, K-sports, FD's, plus much more...
            Ebony Pearl '95 Subaru SVX LSi home of: BontragerWerks 22mm RSB #001

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dan [Sac] View Post
              After some talk with a few shops the consensus is that I should just merge each of the 2" secondaries directly into the divided housing, so each half of the turbine would be fed by each bank....

              It probably won't be pretty, but if the less than ideal Ludespeed design made 504 whp on a 38mm WG and 2.5" OD downpipe, I think my FrankenTubes should do well.

              I still have to look up some numbers and see if each bank can create enough velocity in a 2" pipe, but other than that it should be just sweat, blood and cursewords.

              The downpipe (not pictured) is 4"
              Dan,

              I am somewhat un-familiar with turbo pipe terms so is the 4" downpipe the one that goes from turbo output to muffler?

              I need some advice from you because you are probably the best source for the info that I need. I am sure that you are aware of my Bonneville dreams and I will soon be trying to come up with the exhaust for it so it is time for me to start thinking about it. But I am not knowlegeable in the science of exhaust piping.

              I would like a power band between 6k and 10k or more. I need to still have plenty of power to spare at 10k with no exhaust restrictions. What are your thoughts on NASCAR booms? They are 4 inch input and the engines are 358 CI so half of their cylinders are larger than our entire displacement. Would these booms be too big at 10k RPM? Are you hitting 10k or better in the FrankenProbe?

              Would you suggest a cutout type set-up for lower restriction at the higher RPMs? What are your best suggestions for the set-up. I need some schooling!
              Success is a measure of determination!
              Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
              $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
              Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
              Restoration of a legend

              Comment


              • #8
                Sweet looks like ur doing one heck of a job there ..Hope everything comes together as nice as everything looks there
                https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnm...st.followers.9
                If you live around Kansas check kcprobes.com Or MOPOC If you are in MO .

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                • #9
                  Michael,
                  If you are staying N/A, short tube headers with a 2" secondary into a 3" collector/exhaust piping would probably be your best bet.....that would allow your power band on the 2.5 KL with plenty of flow for your high rpm.

                  If you are going turbo, depending on how many pounds of boost you want to run, short tube headers or stock logs off a '97 ('96 with precats removed could be used as well since they are the same as '97s) into a 2" pipe to 3" collector into turbo with 3.5" for up to about 10lbs of boost or 4" if you're going above that should work pretty well.
                  '94 teal w/black int. some sort of sts, 65mm DE TB full KL31 ZE, CAI, Phenolyc spacers, mx3 flywheel, pacesetter headers, 2.5" exhaust, stainless brake lines, MS and LC-1. Charter member Club 15.2 - Mustang Dyno - 187/169 @the wheels
                  '90 White GT "Pearl"....uh ohzzzz...I had turboz. Now with T3....now it's J-doggs
                  '96 SE & '93 "Red-Eye" smashed and trashed. 97 GTS....crashed, not trashed yet

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looks great Dan. Every turbo car should have a full 4" exhaust from the turbo back. That's what I'm running as well.
                    95 PGT MTX - Probezilla - Supercharged 'n Squirted ZE @ 8 psi
                    93 FD - LSx 7.0L - 11.6@128.5 (w/ old rotary setup)
                    89 DTM PGT - 49K ORIGINAL miles! - MINT! - Sold
                    04 Subaru WRX STi - Perrin FMIC, Greddy 3.5" catback, K&N intake - 308AWHP/318AWTQ - Mustang Dyno
                    Probezilla & The FD 540 RWHP/415 RWTQ @ 24.5 psi (past rotary setup)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SuperSquid View Post
                      Michael,
                      If you are staying N/A, short tube headers with a 2" secondary into a 3" collector/exhaust piping would probably be your best bet.....that would allow your power band on the 2.5 KL with plenty of flow for your high rpm.

                      If you are going turbo, depending on how many pounds of boost you want to run, short tube headers or stock logs off a '97 ('96 with precats removed could be used as well since they are the same as '97s) into a 2" pipe to 3" collector into turbo with 3.5" for up to about 10lbs of boost or 4" if you're going above that should work pretty well.
                      No to N/A and No to turbo. But I believe the pipes should be the same size regardless if it is turbo or SC. I am going 30+ on boost. Is there an on-line calculator that can tell you what size pipes to use and where? I have looked at a few of them and they seem to be very generic.
                      Last edited by KLZE Porsche; July 24, 2010, 08:07 PM.
                      Success is a measure of determination!
                      Bonneville Dreamer-(AKA Purple Pimp Mobile)
                      $500 Gas-Electric-Gas Reconversion/Restoration
                      Mini-me & 500k "Old Gal" RIP
                      Restoration of a legend

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        iam boosted and i have a 3inch exhaust, the less restriction the better.even turbo honda civics have 3in. but 30lbs of boost calls for the 4incher for sure. the supra's and skyllines and built rx7's around here have 4inch also. i miss my rx7
                        Last edited by maac0953; July 24, 2010, 08:54 PM.
                        black 94 probe gt-on 5lbs boost - t3/t4 50trim dynoed at 210hp & 194 tq on fmu

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KLZE Porsche View Post
                          Dan,


                          I would like a power band between 6k and 10k or more. I need to still have plenty of power to spare at 10k with no exhaust restrictions. What are your thoughts on NASCAR booms? They are 4 inch input and the engines are 358 CI so half of their cylinders are larger than our entire displacement. Would these booms be too big at 10k RPM? Are you hitting 10k or better in the FrankenProbe?

                          Would you suggest a cutout type set-up for lower restriction at the higher RPMs? What are your best suggestions for the set-up. I need some schooling!

                          There are quite a few variables in the setup, so I'd recommend talking to experience exhaust system builders (like STP or Burns). Burns even has a spec sheet for you to fill out, and based on that they can suggest your dimensions (primary diameter/length, secondary diameter/length, and so on).

                          http://www.burnsstainless.com/RESF.pdf

                          See what they can do for you, the tech talk is free.
                          90 Mazda 323 - KLZE, fender-flared, right hand drive, 2350 lb fully loaded sex machine. || Pic Thread ||- SOLD
                          93 PGT FRANKENPROBE - 10.24 @ 139.9 mph ||545 whp @ 20 psi || Timeslip || Dyno slip|| Build Thread - GONE
                          97 GTS - Rear Wheel Drive KLZE, 6-speed, 3.90 Torsen LSD, 2650 lb, daily driver! - Build Thread - GONE
                          90 Ghettocet KLiata - forever WIP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would recommend burns as well. Get a free catalogue from their website, or call them and talk to tech. One of, if not the best in the biz.
                            Jesus is the remedy
                            Black '94 GT DE/ZE hyrbid, too many parts to list
                            Black '89 MX-6 GT AWS: T3/T4 turbo, 3" exhaust, big brakes, FD's, K-sports, FD's, plus much more...
                            Ebony Pearl '95 Subaru SVX LSi home of: BontragerWerks 22mm RSB #001

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nevin94 PGT View Post
                              Have you looked at Burns's merge collcetors, Dan? I know they're not cheap, but they are muy bueno.

                              Looked at them (funny story, there is a shop here in town that's bigger than Burns, and has the same stuff, everything they sell is made in their own shop, just found out about it yesterday)...

                              If I feed the turbo with individual bank secondaries, then a merge collector isn't necessary. With the Hotshot primaries, they seem to be well done (not the full race collector style, but acceptable).

                              I've fiddled with a few designs (on paper) and this setup seems to be the best combination of low cost and performance.

                              Ideally I'd like to have some 14" primaries with 3-1 race merge collectors (double slip-fit), then 2-1 collectors feeding the turbo and twin wastegates, but the cash just isn't there. Heck I even thought about running some looooong primaries (equal length) with a 6-1 race collector right before the turbo but gas velocity would be a problem for only ~600 hp. Plus I'll be turning no more than 7500 rpm anyway.
                              90 Mazda 323 - KLZE, fender-flared, right hand drive, 2350 lb fully loaded sex machine. || Pic Thread ||- SOLD
                              93 PGT FRANKENPROBE - 10.24 @ 139.9 mph ||545 whp @ 20 psi || Timeslip || Dyno slip|| Build Thread - GONE
                              97 GTS - Rear Wheel Drive KLZE, 6-speed, 3.90 Torsen LSD, 2650 lb, daily driver! - Build Thread - GONE
                              90 Ghettocet KLiata - forever WIP

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