Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Fixed my EGR & VRIS probs - TEST procedures w/in

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fixed my EGR & VRIS probs - TEST procedures w/in

    As some of you know, a little over a month ago I replaced all of my vacuum lines with silicone hose form hosetechniques.com. Since the install, I have had what was once an intermittent EGR code (CEL) come on as soon as the engine warms up and stay on. Furthermore, my VRIS solenoids did not work which I found out from a quick paper test on the shutter valves.

    I printed another vacuum diagram and dug into the problem today - sure that my woes were related to a screwed up hose connection. My initial check of all connections revealed I had hooked up everything right. Next, I pulled the vacuum hose from the source (vacuum chamber) and sucked on it to see if there was a vacuum leak between the tanks and the solenoids / EGR valve. They seemed to hold vacuum just fine. Next, I tried to pull a vacuum from the vacuum chambers. No such luck. BINGO. I installed the check valve before the vacuum chambers backwards. Yeah, real dumb. For all of those that replace the check valve when you replace the hoses and / or vacuum chambers as I did, make sure the directional arrow stamped on the valve points towards the nipple on the intake manifold.

    Luckily, I was able to turn the valve in the right direction without removing the intake manifold. Don't ask me how, but I did. Several skin grafts later I may be o.k.

    So far several miles of driving and NO EGR code or CEL for that matter have been set. Furthermore, it appears my VRIS system is working properly for the first time since I bought the car. The car feels like it might actually be able to take on an Escort GT for the first time ever. I'll do a paper test next to verify.

    TEST PROCEDURES:

    First, print yourself a vacuum diagram located on Julian Bradbury's excellent Probe/MX website:

    http://www.bradbury.cwc.net/probemx/p_m9.htm

    I'd blow it up a bit and print it to fit a 8 1/2 x 11 paper - it helps you track the vacuum lines a little better trust me.

    Disclaimer: I can not guarantee that you won't break any plastic tee connections if you attempt the tests below with the original brittle rubber hose!!! - No big deal, they can be found at all major auto parts stores for around a dollar.

    VACUUM CHAMBER / CHECK VALVE VACUUM TEST: Find vacuum line that connects metal nipple protruding from back of intake manifold (coming from vacuum chambers, under intake runner to the left of VRIS valve #2) and the first plastic two-way tee. Carefully disconnect this line at the two-way plastic tee. Now on the open end of the vacuum hose suck real hard - you should be able to pull a vacuum here if there is no leak in the check vavle or vacuum chambers mounted under the intake manifold. Next, blow into the same end of the vacuum hose to make sure the check valve is operating properly - you should be able to blow freely through the hose (this is the direction of vacuum pull while the engine is running). When properly installed, the green side of the check valve should be towards the intake manifold and the white side should be towards the vacuum chambers (the arrow stamped on the check valve should also point towards the intake manifold).

    VRIS / EGR HOSE VACUUM TEST: Reconnect vacuum hose described above to the plastic two way tee. Next, disconnect the same hose from the opposite end (at the metal nipple) and suck real hard on that end of the hose. You should be able to pull a vacuum if there are no vacuum leaks in the VRIS / EGR hose routings. If you can suck freely, then you have a bad connection or a crack in one of the vacuum hoses. Follow the vacuum diagram you printed and perform this test while isolating specific parts of the hose routings to narrow down the area where you have the problem. Replacement silicone vacuum hose can be purchased by the foot at HoseTechniques ; you will need approximately 20 feet of 3.5mm hose to replace the stock EGR / VRIS system vacuum hoses.

    TEST FOR VACUUM WHILE ENGINE IS RUNNING: Disconnect hose listed in tests above at the metal nipple. Place your finger over the end of the metal nipple (at the back of the intake manifold just under the runner to the left of the #2 VRIS solenoid as you look at the car from the front). You should be able to feel vacuum when you put your finger over the nipple.

    TEST FOR VACUUM AND SOLENOID / ACTUATOR FUNCTION: with ignition key in on position, unplug VRIS #1 solenoid. Actuator should now be closed. Plug #1 solenoid back in - actuator should immediately open. VRIS #1 should be open with engine on at idle. Without vacuum in the chambers, #1 actuator will not open. Next plug #1 solenoid harness into the #2 solenoid - #2 actuator should now immediately open as well.

    If both solenoids open and close as I have described in the above tests with the key in the on position, you have proven
    1. you have sealed vacuum in the VRIS / EGR system
    2. you have good #1 and #2 solenoids and actuators, power in the #1 solenoid harness, and proper idle control of #1 VRIS solenoid.
    However, you have not proven #1 or #2 solenoids function properly under WOT at specific RPM's. This can only be accomplished with a test light in circuit with the solenoid wiring harnesses or the much simpler paper test.

    TEST FOR POWER TO SOLENOIDS: Turn ignition key to "on" position. Unplug harness to #1 VRIS solenoid. There should be a constant source of +12V in the RED power wire in each VRIS solenoid wiring harness with ignition "on". Test the red wire in each wiring harness for +12V with a mulitmeter to confirm.

    I hope someone will add some version of this to a VRIS / EGR FAQ - I wish I had this months ago when all my problems started.
    I'm a bad man

  • #2
    I hope for your sake that you can take on an Escort GT. Pfft, those things are weak! I can see loosing to one without VRIS and a serious CEL code, that probably dropped like 30 horses off the engine. You should be able to slam dunk an Escort GT now.
    Kevin B - Former Probe-owner
    06 Legacy GT
    98 Legacy GT

    Comment


    • #3
      hey man...i think i have the same problem. ever since i did my phenolic spacer install, my CEL was on and it was the EGR. and i did the same test and found out my VRIS #2, driver side VRIS, wasn't opening. i looked over the hoses and it looks to be correct. you think i have the same problem? what VRIS of your's was messed up? did your car feel sluggish with the messed up VRIS like mine did before i zip tied it open? i still have to fix it. where EXACTLY is that vacuum chamber located?

      sorry for all the questions! :smile:
      '93 Electric Red PGT SOLD
      Sponsored By: Dunlop Tires, Acci-Dent, Extreme Parts, Street Graphix, S3 Magazine, Great Lakes Dragaway
      2006 Infiniti G35 Sedan

      Comment


      • #4
        On Tuesday September 25, 2001 1:48 AM, probepimp wrote:
        hey man...i think i have the same problem. ever since i did my phenolic spacer install, my CEL was on and it was the EGR. and i did the same test and found out my VRIS #2, driver side VRIS, wasn't opening. i looked over the hoses and it looks to be correct. you think i have the same problem? what VRIS of your's was messed up? did your car feel sluggish with the messed up VRIS like mine did before i zip tied it open? i still have to fix it. where EXACTLY is that vacuum chamber located?

        sorry for all the questions! :smile:
        If you have even one of the VRIS actuators working, then the check valve is not your problem. An improperly installed check valve will not allow ANY vacuum into the vacuum chambers (or VRIS and EGR vacuum control system). You can probably see the check valve if you stand on the passenger side of the car and pull the rear bank passenger side spark plug wire out; you can on mine.

        If you have even one component working in the VRIS / EGR system, you definitely have vacuum and I would recheck your hoses. If the hoses check o.k., then check the resistance across the terminals of #2 VRIS solenoid you should have somewhere between 20-50ohms of resistance if my memory serves correct. Also check for power at the red wire on the harness that plugs into solenoid #2 for 12V with the ignition key in the on position. If you had a vacuum leak in the system, by the way the source vacuum is distributed from the vacuum reservoir tanks under the intake manifold nothing would work and you would probably be able to hear a hissing behind the intake manifold while the engine was running at idle.

        I can't stress enough to those who remove their intake manifold for spacers or VGC replacement - REPLACE THOSE OLD BRITTLE VACUUM LINES WITH SILICONE. The silicone hose will only run you $25 with shipping and it will outlast everything on the car. You should probably plan on ordering two new vacuum chambers and a check valve while you are at it because as careful as I was trying to remove the baked-on petrified rubber vacuum hose from them at least one of the plastic nipples broke off of each.

        Print the vacuum line diagram from Julian's website and go over everything one more time. If you can't make any sense of it, you can PM me and I'll get you my phone number so you can call me - it will be something we'll have to talk about while we are both looking at our engines at the same time - I think I could help you the most that way.

        Good luck -


        I'm a bad man

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm gonna have to check this out. But my VRIS do work.
          Member # 258
          '93PGT - SOLD(twice) '92PGT - parted, '90 MX-6 GT - SOLD
          '18 Ford Super Duty SuperCrew 4x4

          Comment


          • #6
            note: TomT has some excellent posts in the 2.5L forums, and I actually rather enjoy the vehicular related topics that he posts.
            1993 Ford Probe GT - KLDE + N2O
            228 whp 241 wtq - 2340 lb race weight
            ATX - 13.44@105.1 MTX - 13.35@106.1

            Comment


            • #7
              On Tuesday September 25, 2001 9:00 AM, HowLeTT wrote:
              note: TomT has some excellent posts in the 2.5L forums, and I actually rather enjoy the vehicular related topics that he posts.
              Thanks Howlett, I like to think of myself as much more than the Kill Forum whore!

              I'm a bad man

              Comment


              • #8
                thanks a lot tom! i'll recheck everything over again. thanks for all the help!
                '93 Electric Red PGT SOLD
                Sponsored By: Dunlop Tires, Acci-Dent, Extreme Parts, Street Graphix, S3 Magazine, Great Lakes Dragaway
                2006 Infiniti G35 Sedan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok the check valve is the little green and white thing right. I don't have my manifold back on yet so i'm looking at this now.

                  I don't see any arrows on it but which nipple is supposed to be connected to the vacccum chambers the green nipple or the white one?



                  Mods: T3/T4 Turbo, Intercooler, Duel Feed Millenia S's, Walbro 255. ZE Manifold, Ported Heads(Intake track), Port&Polished (TB),Phenolic Spacer(I/TB), Mallory FPR, Custom 2.5inch exhaust, Fidanza, Southbend 4 Puck, B&M short shifter, Brembo Rotors(Slotted/Dimpled),EBC Pads, and PT Swaybar.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On Tuesday September 25, 2001 4:02 PM, Ltsrunem wrote:
                    Ok the check valve is the little green and white thing right. I don't have my manifold back on yet so i'm looking at this now.

                    I don't see any arrows on it but which nipple is supposed to be connected to the vacccum chambers the green nipple or the white one?


                    Green side towards the intake manifold, white side towards the vacuum chambers.
                    I'm a bad man

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Damn then i had mine wrong them. Thanks man good lookin out.
                      Mods: T3/T4 Turbo, Intercooler, Duel Feed Millenia S's, Walbro 255. ZE Manifold, Ported Heads(Intake track), Port&Polished (TB),Phenolic Spacer(I/TB), Mallory FPR, Custom 2.5inch exhaust, Fidanza, Southbend 4 Puck, B&M short shifter, Brembo Rotors(Slotted/Dimpled),EBC Pads, and PT Swaybar.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nice writeup Tom.
                        95 PGT, 91 STS/DSP, 15.03 @ 93.4
                        08 WRB Subaru WRX STi (new addition to the family)
                        PGT Page
                        MS Region SCCA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [quote]
                          On Monday September 24, 2001 10:39 PM, TomT wrote:

                          VRIS #1 should be open at idle conditions.

                          [/quote

                          Are you sure this is how it's supposed to work ? In the VRIS spec it says that 0 - 3250 rpms VRIS 1 & 2 are both closed.
                          It's open on my car @ idle, but I don't think that's right. Also, if my VRIS's are all connected the way they are supposed to, but the solenoids open and close them not when they are supposed to, does it mean I need to change my ECU or TPS ?
                          '95 DSM Eclipse GST
                          '96 Ford Probe GT - R.I.P.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [quote]
                            On Monday October 8, 2001 9:38 AM, IL-96 wrote:
                            On Monday September 24, 2001 10:39 PM, TomT wrote:

                            VRIS #1 should be open at idle conditions.

                            [/quote

                            Are you sure this is how it's supposed to work ? In the VRIS spec it says that 0 - 3250 rpms VRIS 1 & 2 are both closed.
                            It's open on my car @ idle, but I don't think that's right. Also, if my VRIS's are all connected the way they are supposed to, but the solenoids open and close them not when they are supposed to, does it mean I need to change my ECU or TPS ?
                            This is a correct statement. Only at high load conditions determined by throttle position sensor voltage and possibly one or two other sensors the VRIS #1 will close from a default open position between 0-3250rpm.

                            I'm a bad man

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On Tuesday September 25, 2001 9:43 PM, TomT wrote:
                              Green side towards the intake manifold, white side towards the vacuum chambers.
                              Whats really weird is a week or so ago I thought that I had it reversed so I turned it around, then after reading this, I went and checked it again, so I reversed it again and now my 16 has disappeared and the top end is stronger. Cool. Thanks Tom.
                              the FAZDAShoulda never sold itadditional FAZDA photos

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X