Buying a JDM KLZE and things to look for

[McMalibu]

good place to get one

I got my KLZE from JDM Engines in Richardson, TX for $750 (they had been advertising on the internet for $800 but marked them down about a week before I got mine, a couple of months ago), Since I am only 2 hours away I went there and picked it up. The color on the outside left a little to be desired, dark/semi corroded but internatlly it looked spanking new. The cam belt looked as good as the new one i bought to put on it ie zero wear. Aluminum is wierd in the way it reacts to atmospheric conditions so I don't put a lot of stock in the color necessariily. The only way to really tell the condition is open it up and look. I didn't do a compression check on it but it runs like a top and I wish I would have made the swap sooner. This is the motor that should have came in the car when it was new! This engine makes a great car that much better, drivability is improved so much that it is not even in the same league. I read Jeff Jeske's write up on doing the swap which is a MUST READ if you are planning to do one. The only thing that I noticed that Jef didn't mention was the ZE I bought had no crank sensor on the harmonic balancer, just a plug in the hole so i used the one from the DE engine with no problems. The guys at JDM Richardson were good to work with getting it and if you live in the north Texas area I would recommend them and I would not hesitate to do business with them again, I believe they will ship for you but I have no idea what the cost is. I am planning a write up on my swap soon to lay out my impressions.

Jackie McCracken

[KLZE Porsche]

Latest Discovery And Perhaps Quite Important

To all KLZE owners and prospective new ones:

While performing the inspection on Venchman's ZE and replacement of the intake valvesprings and retainers I discovered something that got me doing some more in-depth investigation. I had mentioned in another thread that I had seen two physically different types of retainer/lock combinations and somenone had tried to argue with me that there was only one for all.

But Venchman's ZE had the different set of locks and retainers. His ZE is a later model and I believe they went to this altered design in later ones. The locks are larger than older ones and so thus the taper bores that they go into are larger to accomidate the larger locks. Although the rest of the physical dimensions appear to be the same. EDIT: After re-measuring with digital micrometers I found astounding differences in the physical dimensions. One would expect the larger conical bore retainers to be larger in bulk but it was the exact opposite. See photos at bottom. So this being the case in-theory would make these newer style retainers weaker than the older style ones.

This is a very extremely important discovery because this could explain why there are a few of the older KLZE owners who have been swearing that they have seriously abused their KLZE's with no dropped valves. This might account for the rising numbers of dropped valves in recent years. If these newer KLZE versions with the altered lock/retainer combinations are the reason for the rising number of valve droppage then perhaps this heightens the neccessity of performing this inspection and if possible replacement of the valvesprings and retainers before the engine swap.

So to further investigate this theory I made my way to the local salvage yard and found myself a newer 2001 Millenia with the 2.5L KL01 motor in it. I pulled the valve cover and then pulled a few of the intake and exhaust valvesprings and guess what I found? I found the larger locks on both intake and exhaust. So this means that this change is not just limited to the newer KLZE's or just the intakes. The new combination is also found in American 2000 Millenia models and on the exhaust side as well.

I inspected a 1998 2.5L which didn't have the G4 heads with G4 cams and SLA's because I don't believe they put them on the G4 engines until 2000. Instead they have just regular KL01 heads with HLA's and the G4 ignition system. The 1998 2.5L still had the older style, smaller splitlocks.

So this may very well need to be an inspection item to add to this thread. Other acknowledgements on this information are welcomed. But a very good thing here would be for those that have dropped valves to confirm this information if possible by verifying which type splitlock/retainer combination they have. Here are some photos. After mic'ing them I have found that there is actually some very significant differences in retainers. You will be able to see that the retainers that I expect are from newer engines are not only thinner because of the larger conical bores but also have signifcantly less mass to them. The dimensions are smaller and less beefier. Take a look and WOW - who would have guessed?

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers01.jpg

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers02.jpg

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers03.jpg

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers04.jpg

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers05.jpg

I don't know how to make a bigger flag than this but if you read this then let others know. The last couple of photos that show how much difference there are between retainers really took me for a loop. It is just one of those things that everybody overlooks because it is just something that you really aren't looking for. But now if you read this and you spread the word then this may help a lot of folks who purchase KLZE's in the future. If you are as shocked as I am then please get the word out.

Here are a couple more really good comparisons:

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers06.jpg

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/h...etainers07.jpg

[black&redpgt]

Engine World?????

If no one says diferent I will be buying fron engine world. He said it was clean matching# and @ $640 shiped!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Venchman]

See if they can send you pics with the front valve cover removed... If so forward them to this thread...

[Lt. Dangle]

Definitely a tidbit of good info KLZE Porsche...good read player.

[RedGtProbin]

What a great discovery made by KLZE Porsche!

I have been in a similar situation with Noyan; they sent me a motor with a blown head gasket. I called them up and told them that I would be expecting a new motor in the next 2 weeks. Guess what showed up at my door? I sold that motor to a member here and from what I gather, he has had problems with that motor too. I guess Noyan isn't as trustworthy as their reputation says they are.

I found this quote in a similar thread and thought it was suitable :

"another reason not to buy a ze. I know if I was in japan and the government paid me to rid my car after 30k I wouldn't ever change the oil either"

[Venchman]

Do you have pics or anything?

[RedGtProbin]

Pics of the motor? Under the valve cover, it was nice and clean and no signs of a blown head gasket.

[mx3autozam]

Question for KLZE Porsche.

You say your running DE retainers and springs in your ze right? I am in the process of building my motor. I came across this and not sure if its an issue or not. But the ZE spring is wider in diamater. Now when I place a de spring into the HLA bore will I have issues with it moving aoudn possibly. Also there is a small washer thing in the head under the spring.I believe its called a seat loacter possibly. Do I need to use the ones from a DE as well they are the same size as the spring but not the bore.

To me it seems that the spring is smaller therefore it could move around the the bore. But then again once the valve is installed with the valve keppers it will be tight, and the the HLA on top so it will probably not move around. If you understand what I am talking about please let me know what you think as I do not wnat to do this wrong and have issues. Thanks!

[KLZE Porsche]

Question for KLZE Porsche.

You say your running DE retainers and springs in your ze right? I am in the process of building my motor. I came across this and not sure if its an issue or not. But the ZE spring is wider in diamater. Now when I place a de spring into the HLA bore will I have issues with it moving aoudn possibly. Also there is a small washer thing in the head under the spring.I believe its called a seat loacter possibly. Do I need to use the ones from a DE as well they are the same size as the spring but not the bore.

To me it seems that the spring is smaller therefore it could move around the the bore. But then again once the valve is installed with the valve keppers it will be tight, and the the HLA on top so it will probably not move around. If you understand what I am talking about please let me know what you think as I do not wnat to do this wrong and have issues. Thanks!

I am not currently running my ZE heads. I pulled them recently and replaced them with a set of DE heads. I am in the process of doing some more modifications on them. However I am doing the swap for Venchman. The DE spring being larger is not an issue. The spring doesn't contact the bucket on the sides anyways. The washer at the bottom is an anti-galling mechanism because without it the hardened steel spring would dig into the softer aluminum. Use the larger ones from the ZE because they locate better in the larger bores.

The absolutely most important thing I would have to say here is to identify which retainers and locks you have with the new discovery about the different types of retainers and locks. I will try to set some sort of standard on this so it will be easy for most to recognize the differences and avoid problems. My guesing is that the newer style retainers with larger conical bores and less mass would be far weaker than the older style. And my guessing is that this would greatly increase your chances of breaking a retainer even on the exhaust side and perhaps even if you replace the intakes with the newer style combo. I would recommend using springs, retainers and locks from a pre-97 DE to be on the safe side.

It might be recommendable to replace both intakes and exhaust with older style if you have this newer style combination. I don't believe I have ever heard of dropped valves in an older DE motor'd car. And the newer DEs with the newer style combinations have not been out long enough to have any instances. And if you think about it -are 2000 + 2.5L Millenias going to be hot rodded around much to float the valves and find out? I wouldn't think so.

[mx3autozam]

I'm swapping them out for retainers,springs and lock from a early model DE, Its from my brothers 93 PGt actually. I will be replacing both intake and exhaust valvetrains just to be safe. But you answered my question about th washer thing in the bottom of the bucket.

[probius]

Also there is a small washer thing in the head under the spring.I believe its called a seat loacter possibly.

I don't know what they are called, but their purpose is to stop the springs wearing into the aluminium head.

[Tigger]

so are you saying that OBD-1 engines should not have these bad style retainers?

[KLZE Porsche]

so are you saying that OBD-1 engines should not have these bad style retainers?

That is correct! So if you go to a salvage yard to get KLDE retainers, springs and locks then get them from an OBDI car and you should be safe. I have not investigated OBDII cars to find out which ones they have yet. But as of right now it seems to be cars from 2000 and up that have the questionable combination. More on that later as I continue to collect the data.

[Tigger]

Does this include ZE ingines or just DE? I just want to make sure....