'94 Probe GT won't start. Fuel pump?

sealpt · October 23rd, 2011, 05:51 PM

So, I haven't driven the '94 probe gt lately. I started it and it took about 5 cranks to start. I have read on here that when you put the key in to start the car, the pump doesn't prime, but It just seems to me like it does. Like a 2 second sound from the back of the car.

Anyway, it has been sitting for a while and was low on fuel so I took it to the gas station. It died as I approached the pump. I put fuel in it, started it up, started to move and it died.

It would not restart. Not only that, but I didn't hear any of the pump being primed.

I did the jump at the diagnostic terminal via the haynes book and heard a noise, but the noise sounds like it is the injectors or something. It isn't coming from the middle to back of the car at all.

I listened and felt the relay and it appears to be clicking on when my wife turns on the ignition.

Could it be that there is not enough gas in the tank and that is the only problem? There is currently only about a gallon or two in there, maybe less.

Is there an easy way to check the fuel pump to see if it is actually working.

In the days of carburetors, you could just take off the air cleaner and put in a few drops of fuel and the car would at least try to start. Is there any way to do this sort of priming thing with a fuel injected car?

Thank you for your time,
Shawn

earl8245 · October 23rd, 2011, 07:23 PM

I know for a fact that my '94 does not prime until you crank the motor over.

Make sure you have spark. Distributors on these cars are prone to failure. Pull a spark plug wire off one of the plugs and attach another, lay it on the intake manifold and crank it over, you should see spark.

You can check for fuel by pulling off the fuel return line after the fuel pressure regulator and attaching a hose long enough to catch the fuel coming out of it into a container. Then crank over the motor. Remember there will be some fuel spilled when you pull off the return line, even if the pump isn't working. Be careful.

sealpt · October 23rd, 2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

I know for a fact that my '94 does not prime until you crank the motor over.

Make sure you have spark. Distributors on these cars are prone to failure. Pull a spark plug wire off one of the plugs and attach another, lay it on the intake manifold and crank it over, you should see spark.

You can check for fuel by pulling off the fuel return line after the fuel pressure regulator and attaching a hose long enough to catch the fuel coming out of it into a container. Then crank over the motor. Remember there will be some fuel spilled when you pull off the return line, even if the pump isn't working. Be careful.

Well, no spark it looks like. I'll have to do the fuel pump test in a couple of days. I'll post back and let you know.

Would it be the whole distributer, or just maybe the cap and rotor? How about the coil, could it be that possibly? Is there a test for that?

Thank you,
Shawn

earl8245 · October 24th, 2011, 04:24 PM

Likely cause for no spark is the ignitor which is mounted inside the distributor under the cap, rotor and cam position sensor. Remanufactured distributors are expensive and also have a high failure rate. The "HEI mod" is an inexpensive replacement for the stock ignitor and can be rigged with an aftermarket external coil.

Be sure to check all of your fuses before assuming the distributor is dead.

sealpt · October 24th, 2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

Likely cause for no spark is the ignitor which is mounted inside the distributor under the cap, rotor and cam position sensor. Remanufactured distributors are expensive and also have a high failure rate. The "HEI mod" is an inexpensive replacement for the stock ignitor and can be rigged with an aftermarket external coil.

Be sure to check all of your fuses before assuming the distributor is dead.

Well, it isn't the distributor. I kind of glanced around this morning on the distributor end, and noticed at least one spark plug wire unplugged from the bottom.

I'll do the fuel pump test tomorrow when I have more time.

Shawn

sealpt · October 25th, 2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

You can check for fuel by pulling off the fuel return line after the fuel pressure regulator and attaching a hose long enough to catch the fuel coming out of it into a container. Then crank over the motor. Remember there will be some fuel spilled when you pull off the return line, even if the pump isn't working. Be careful.

I was going to post a picture of the hose that I think you are talking about, but this forum won't let me post a pic.

Is there a way you can show me which hose you are talking about?

Shawn

daweb · October 25th, 2011, 08:09 PM

to post pics you have to goto to supermotors .com or photobucket.com and get an account there free then you can post pics here

sealpt · October 26th, 2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

You can check for fuel by pulling off the fuel return line after the fuel pressure regulator and attaching a hose long enough to catch the fuel coming out of it into a container. Then crank over the motor. Remember there will be some fuel spilled when you pull off the return line, even if the pump isn't working. Be careful.

Ok, let me try this again.

Is this the hose you are talking about?
http://s1099.photobucket.com/albums/.../Ford%20Probe/

Thank you,
Shawn

Cougar · October 26th, 2011, 08:22 AM

That's the one. Wouldn't surprise me if you have a fuel pump issue as my Mercury Sable did the same thing this spring. I hadn't run it in a year or more and it started and ran for about 5 minutes before it died. I checked for fuel and found nothing. Installed a new pump and it has been running ever since. Good luck.

sealpt · October 26th, 2011, 06:57 PM

I'll give that hose thing a try. That thing is kinda tough to get off of there. I'll give it another try.

sealpt · October 26th, 2011, 08:48 PM

Ok, I had thought that gas would come out of the rubber hose, and not the steel tube so I wasn't quite prepared for the gas.

At any rate, we cranked the engine, and gas came gushing out of the steel tube shown in picture number one.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMG_3474.jpg

There is spark from the distributor, and fuel from the fuel pump, at least to this point.

Any ideas?

Thank you,
Shawn

earl8245 · October 27th, 2011, 03:28 PM

Pull codes. Check fuses.
There is spark on each plug?

sealpt · October 27th, 2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

Pull codes. Check fuses.
There is spark on each plug?

Well, the manual says to bring the car up to temp, which I can't since it isn't running. I ran the code anyway, and it was 8 quick flashes, with a pause, one long flash... pause.. 8 short flashes, etc.

The code says it is the mass air flow sensor, or circuit.

All the spark plugs fire, and all fuses look good. I pulled each of them out to check.

Shawn

earl8245 · October 27th, 2011, 04:08 PM

Yep, make sure the vaf/maf is plugged in, it won't run without it.

sealpt · October 27th, 2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

Yep, make sure the vaf/maf is plugged in, it won't run without it.

Isn't that the electrical connection on the part holding the air filter? that part is plugged in.

earl8245 · October 27th, 2011, 05:09 PM

Yes...

sealpt · October 27th, 2011, 06:29 PM

Well.. here's what happened. I had the air cleaner assembly off so I could get to that gas line. I tested the pump, but just kept the air cleaner box off, which meant that plug was unplugged. I did the code test and it said it was the plug, (duh) so I put the air filter box back on. It still said it was bad. I went out there just now and cleared the code like the manual says to do, and the code is gone.

Now here is the thing. The fuel cutout light is glowing as I try to start the car. I'm not sure exactly if it did that before or not. I've checked the fuel cutoff inertia switch and it is depressed as it should be.

I'm thinking that if that thing was triggered then my fuel pump test wouldn't have spit fuel out.

Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Shawn

earl8245 · October 27th, 2011, 06:46 PM

Right, if inertia switch was tripped, fuel pump wouldn't turn on.
Fuel cut light on is normal if the car won't start.

Check all fuses
Re-check for spark on all plug wire ends. Don't check spark if you still have spilt fuel in your engine compartment.

earl8245 · October 27th, 2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sealpt

All the spark plugs fire, and all fuses look good. I pulled each of them out to check.

Shawn

Sorry.

I guess the next thing to check is the timing belt, it might have jumped a few teeth somewhere.

sealpt · October 27th, 2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl8245

Sorry.

I guess the next thing to check is the timing belt, it might have jumped a few teeth somewhere.

Are you saying I have to take off the front of the engine for this check, or is there an easier way to do this?

Just as my background. This summer I replaced the water pump, then replaced the rear valvecover gasket, which meant taking the intake manifold off..

The car ran fine after all of this. The only thing was it didn't start all that great after the rear valvecover job was done. I was never sure why that was. It used to just start.. then after that job was done it would crank over about 3 times before starting.

The timing belt looked good when I was in there for the water pump. Wouldn't the timing belt thing tear up the engine, or valves at least?

daweb · October 27th, 2011, 08:08 PM

no they are non interference engines that means the pistons and valves wont hit when it jumps time

sealpt · October 27th, 2011, 08:19 PM

How is this particular check done? I have to remove the covers on the timing belt, right? Which as I recall means taking off alternator, and front pully, motor mount, and stuff like that, right?

There must be an easier way.

earl8245 · October 27th, 2011, 08:27 PM

A timing problem might show up on a cylinder compression test.

daweb · October 27th, 2011, 08:33 PM

there is just take off the i think 12 bolts off the covers you dont have to rip the whole front of the engine apart

sealpt · October 27th, 2011, 08:48 PM

Whew. I was having a flashback to 4 evenings of being under the hood on this thing trying to get to that waterpump. Not having the pulley come off.. All that other good crap.

Ok, when I pull the covers off, what should I be looking for? I know there are like marks to follow when the engine is at top dead center or something, right?

October 23rd, 2011, 05:51 PM	#1
sealpt Search Impaired Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54	'94 Probe GT won't start. Fuel pump? So, I haven't driven the '94 probe gt lately. I started it and it took about 5 cranks to start. I have read on here that when you put the key in to start the car, the pump doesn't prime, but It just seems to me like it does. Like a 2 second sound from the back of the car. Anyway, it has been sitting for a while and was low on fuel so I took it to the gas station. It died as I approached the pump. I put fuel in it, started it up, started to move and it died. It would not restart. Not only that, but I didn't hear any of the pump being primed. I did the jump at the diagnostic terminal via the haynes book and heard a noise, but the noise sounds like it is the injectors or something. It isn't coming from the middle to back of the car at all. I listened and felt the relay and it appears to be clicking on when my wife turns on the ignition. Could it be that there is not enough gas in the tank and that is the only problem? There is currently only about a gallon or two in there, maybe less. Is there an easy way to check the fuel pump to see if it is actually working. In the days of carburetors, you could just take off the air cleaner and put in a few drops of fuel and the car would at least try to start. Is there any way to do this sort of priming thing with a fuel injected car? Thank you for your time, Shawn

October 23rd, 2011, 07:23 PM	#2
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	I know for a fact that my '94 does not prime until you crank the motor over. Make sure you have spark. Distributors on these cars are prone to failure. Pull a spark plug wire off one of the plugs and attach another, lay it on the intake manifold and crank it over, you should see spark. You can check for fuel by pulling off the fuel return line after the fuel pressure regulator and attaching a hose long enough to catch the fuel coming out of it into a container. Then crank over the motor. Remember there will be some fuel spilled when you pull off the return line, even if the pump isn't working. Be careful. __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow?

October 24th, 2011, 04:24 PM	#4
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	Likely cause for no spark is the ignitor which is mounted inside the distributor under the cap, rotor and cam position sensor. Remanufactured distributors are expensive and also have a high failure rate. The "HEI mod" is an inexpensive replacement for the stock ignitor and can be rigged with an aftermarket external coil. Be sure to check all of your fuses before assuming the distributor is dead. __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow? Last edited by earl8245; October 24th, 2011 at 04:26 PM.

October 25th, 2011, 08:09 PM	#7
daweb Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: kansasville,wi Age: 51 Posts: 4,887	to post pics you have to goto to supermotors .com or photobucket.com and get an account there free then you can post pics here __________________ 95 PGT white dd klze / mtx fidanza,maf swapped obx headers 2 1/2" mandrel bent 14.3 sec 1/4mile time 94 PGT blue toy de/ze/g4 hybrid/ mtx turbo 5- 10 psi maf swapped aem piggy back, fidanza mandrel bent exaust 93 PGT red klde/mtx klg4 intake,wild orchid interior 97&94&93 PGT gone DALE

October 26th, 2011, 08:22 AM	#9
Cougar PT Regular Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milford, MI Age: 63 Posts: 569	That's the one. Wouldn't surprise me if you have a fuel pump issue as my Mercury Sable did the same thing this spring. I hadn't run it in a year or more and it started and ran for about 5 minutes before it died. I checked for fuel and found nothing. Installed a new pump and it has been running ever since. Good luck. __________________ '95 KLZE PGT - SPEC Clutch, Borla Exhaust, Hot Shot Headers, LSD Trans, MegaSquirt, Supercharged

October 26th, 2011, 06:57 PM	#10
sealpt Search Impaired Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54	I'll give that hose thing a try. That thing is kinda tough to get off of there. I'll give it another try.

October 26th, 2011, 08:48 PM	#11
sealpt Search Impaired Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54	Ok, I had thought that gas would come out of the rubber hose, and not the steel tube so I wasn't quite prepared for the gas. At any rate, we cranked the engine, and gas came gushing out of the steel tube shown in picture number one. http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMG_3474.jpg There is spark from the distributor, and fuel from the fuel pump, at least to this point. Any ideas? Thank you, Shawn

October 27th, 2011, 03:28 PM	#12
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	Pull codes. Check fuses. There is spark on each plug? __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow? Last edited by earl8245; October 27th, 2011 at 03:49 PM.

October 27th, 2011, 04:08 PM	#14
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	Yep, make sure the vaf/maf is plugged in, it won't run without it. __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow? Last edited by earl8245; October 27th, 2011 at 04:10 PM.

October 27th, 2011, 05:09 PM	#16
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	Yes... __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow?

October 27th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#17
sealpt Search Impaired Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54	Well.. here's what happened. I had the air cleaner assembly off so I could get to that gas line. I tested the pump, but just kept the air cleaner box off, which meant that plug was unplugged. I did the code test and it said it was the plug, (duh) so I put the air filter box back on. It still said it was bad. I went out there just now and cleared the code like the manual says to do, and the code is gone. Now here is the thing. The fuel cutout light is glowing as I try to start the car. I'm not sure exactly if it did that before or not. I've checked the fuel cutoff inertia switch and it is depressed as it should be. I'm thinking that if that thing was triggered then my fuel pump test wouldn't have spit fuel out. Any suggestions? Thank you, Shawn

October 27th, 2011, 06:46 PM	#18
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	Right, if inertia switch was tripped, fuel pump wouldn't turn on. Fuel cut light on is normal if the car won't start. Check all fuses Re-check for spark on all plug wire ends. Don't check spark if you still have spilt fuel in your engine compartment. __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow?

October 27th, 2011, 08:08 PM	#21
daweb Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: kansasville,wi Age: 51 Posts: 4,887	no they are non interference engines that means the pistons and valves wont hit when it jumps time __________________ 95 PGT white dd klze / mtx fidanza,maf swapped obx headers 2 1/2" mandrel bent 14.3 sec 1/4mile time 94 PGT blue toy de/ze/g4 hybrid/ mtx turbo 5- 10 psi maf swapped aem piggy back, fidanza mandrel bent exaust 93 PGT red klde/mtx klg4 intake,wild orchid interior 97&94&93 PGT gone DALE

October 27th, 2011, 08:19 PM	#22
sealpt Search Impaired Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54	How is this particular check done? I have to remove the covers on the timing belt, right? Which as I recall means taking off alternator, and front pully, motor mount, and stuff like that, right? There must be an easier way.

October 27th, 2011, 08:27 PM	#23
earl8245 PT Regular Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Minnesota Age: 48 Posts: 728	A timing problem might show up on a cylinder compression test. __________________ '94 PGT - MTX, KLG4 IM/xtremethings ECU, CAI, Headers, cat delete, Magnaflow, STS, Phenos, HEI mod, XTD 6-puck on a molly flywheel, Walbro 190, ZEX wet system, "Jacked" VRIS, pillar gauges, nav, Kitted & Winged. Why you so slow?

October 27th, 2011, 08:33 PM	#24
daweb Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: kansasville,wi Age: 51 Posts: 4,887	there is just take off the i think 12 bolts off the covers you dont have to rip the whole front of the engine apart __________________ 95 PGT white dd klze / mtx fidanza,maf swapped obx headers 2 1/2" mandrel bent 14.3 sec 1/4mile time 94 PGT blue toy de/ze/g4 hybrid/ mtx turbo 5- 10 psi maf swapped aem piggy back, fidanza mandrel bent exaust 93 PGT red klde/mtx klg4 intake,wild orchid interior 97&94&93 PGT gone DALE

October 27th, 2011, 08:48 PM	#25
sealpt Search Impaired Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 54	Whew. I was having a flashback to 4 evenings of being under the hood on this thing trying to get to that waterpump. Not having the pulley come off.. All that other good crap. Ok, when I pull the covers off, what should I be looking for? I know there are like marks to follow when the engine is at top dead center or something, right?