transmission swapping??

[thyreaper]

How hard would it be to turn a automatic probe into a manual 5spd one?

[ilyack]

Re: transmission swapping??

I was just about to post the same exact question !
I have a 1989 GL, and I'm planning on putting a manual gearbox in it sometime soon.

My guess is that you will need to replace the ECU, along with the actual gearbox, all the shifter linkage, the clutch pedal with the associated hydraulics and maybe someting else too?

I also think that if the ECU has to be replaced, it must be taken from the same year vehicle.

I've tried to figure out whether I have all the necessary mounts for the clutch pedal in my car, but I don't have a definite answer yet.

I'm thinking of scavengining all the parts I need from the local auto-wreckers, and will do it when it gets a bit warmer.

Till then I would also like to know if anyone had attepted this before, and whether they had problems with it or not....

So the question remains...

[FAST_91]

Re: transmission swapping??

this has been gone over MANY times, you could have searched and found it..... I hate telling people to search, but on such a common subject such as this, I have to. However, I'm not gonna be a dick and just leave you hanging.

Before you read the "how-to" read THIS ----> I am not responsible for any damage you cause to your car, property, or yourself. By reading this, you understand, acknowledge and agree to these terms.



You will need:

1) transmission
2) clutch master cylinder
3) clutch slave cylinder
4) clutch fluid line
5) ALL transmission mounts (except maybe the one on the core support, the front one)
6) shift linkage
7) shifter and plate (the plate unbolts from the body, look under the car... you'll see it)
8) the brake and clutch pedal cage (they come out as a combined unit, accelerator is interchangeable, so you don't need that)
9) flywheel
10) clutch and pressure plate
11) manual transmission axles (this is a debated topic, I don't know the "real" answer, now, if you use a GT tranny in a GL, or vice versa you will need the axles from the donor car)


To clarify, you DO NOT need a manual tranny computer. However, you WILL have to remove the 4EAT ECU for the transmission, it is right where the clutch WOULD be, you can't miss it. Now, I'm gonna be rare here, and go thru MOST of the steps this time, so that if ANYONE needs this again, they can be linked here and have it at their fingertips (literally )

List of tools needed:
1) Jack and Jackstands (don't use jackstands and get hurt, it's not my responsibility)
2) A GOOD rachet set, I recommend at least 1/2" drive for some of the bigger bolts. Make sure it has BOTH SAE (standard size) and METRIC sockets. It would also not hurt to have a 6" 12" and Universal extensions.
3) Clutch alignment tool (trust me, it's a bitch without it)
4) Differential plugs to slide into the differential (the places where the axles come out) so that the side gears do not fall out of place, if they do you will have to dissassemble the transmission.
5) LOTS OF TIME AND PATIENCE

Now for the steps:

1) Loosen the Axle nuts, they are staked into place, so you will have to get a small screwdriver in there to push the shroud up. DO THIS WITH THE TIRES ON THE GROUND
2) Loosen the lugnuts, again TIRES ON THE GROUND
3) Jack the car up and place jackstands at the front of the framerails, so as not to impede crossmember removal. (NOTE: If you do not know what framerails or crossmembers are.... STOP do not continue, you have no idea what you are doing and will mess it up BAD.
4) Remove all ATX (auto tranny) supporting systems. (ie; shifter, shifter plate, 4EAT control module, Brake pedal cage, and shifter trim pieces)
5) Remove the Axle nuts.
6) Unbolt the hub from the strut (two double ended 17MM nuts/bolts)
7) Drain transaxle fluid
8) Allow the hub to fall forward (it may take some persuading) and swing it on the Tie Tod end (steering Knuckle) and remove the axle from the hub and transmission (if you care about the ATX insert the diff plugs. Leave the hubs in this position.
9) Repeat step 8 on the opposite side of the car.
10) Unbolt the Control Arm (A arm) from the DRIVER side crossmember.
11) Unbolt the crossmember from the body of the car, these bolts will likely be rusted, soak them in penetrating oil about 30 minutes before you get to this step. YOu will also have to remove the rear tranny mount bolt to get the crossmember off.
12) Place you jack under the transmission, in a spot that is somewhat level NOT THE TRANNY PAN, YOU MORON!!!!
13) Remove the dust shield from the transmission (it's kinda on the engine, just in between the oilpan, and the tranny)
14) Unbolt the FOUR torque converter bolts, you will have to place a screwdriver through the accessholes on the tranny, and into the ring gear of the flexplate (flywheel to some) and move it slowly until you have removed ALL FOUR of the bolts, this is a time consuming process, get over it.
15) Take the through-bolts out of the rest of the tranny mounts, these can be a bitch... I recommend using a screwdriver and a hammer at first, the a crowbar or something once you have them out a little. (the trick is, keep the tranny supported, or you will get unbelievably pissed at these bolts)
16) Remove the starter (pretty straightforward, right?)
17) Remove the transaxle to engine bolts, some are 19mm, some are 17mm, and I think there is one 14mm
18) Unhook the speedo cable at the junction, there is a bigass peice of metal of the speedo cable... that will unscrew from the other section.
19) SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY slide the transaxle away from the engine. Once again BE CAREFUL, these things weigh about 400+lbs... I dropped one on my foot, it hurt... dont' be like me.

[FAST_91]

Re: transmission swapping??

Little break here, since the original was too long, I've had to make it a 2 poster.

20) Lower the transmission, have a friend on hand for this if possible.
21) CAREFULLY slide the transmission onto the ground, you may have to jack the car up a little higher to get the tranny out from under the car. Watch out for the torque converter, it will probably fall out. It weighs about 30 lbs, dont' try to catch it if it does
22) Remove the flexplate from teh crank.
23) Unbolt the little goldish colored plate from the firewall, it's right next to the strut tower, about 3/4 of the way up the firewall, driver's side.
24) Bolt the clutch master cylinder to the firewall.
25) Put in the manual tranny clutch and brake pedal cage, remember to hook up the clutch master cylinder, and the brake master cylinder.
26) Install the shifter plate and linkages.
27) Put the manual transmission flywheel on the crank. Torque it to 75ft/lb
28) Install the clutch system (friction disk first, then pressure plate) Lightly bolt the pressure plate down. Now, before you tighten it completely, insert the clutch alignment tool. Then torque the pressure plate to 65 ft/lbs
29) Prepare the manual tranny for installation.
30) Place the manual tranny on the jack and raise it into position (remove the alignment tool if you haven't already... dumbass)
31) Make sure you have the throwout bearing in correctly (it should have two tabs that fit on the release fork)
32) Line the input shaft up with the clutch, and push it into place (it will take some wiggling, but it will go) Torque the 19mm bolts to 100 ft/lb, 17mm to 85ft/lb, and 14... just tighten the damn thing tight enough... OK??? Sorry, I'm getting a little tired
33) Line up the tranny mounts, and put in the trough-bolts (this can be a bitch, just be patient)
34) Install the crossmember.
35) Install trough-bolt on rear tranny mount
36) Install slave cylinder
37) Install clutch fluid line
38) Bleed the clutch (it's just like bleeding brakes, if you can't do that... buy a ****ing book, haven't I typed enough already?)
39) Hook up the shift linkage
40) Install axles (installation is reverse of removal)
41) Mount hub back on strut (reverse of removal)
42) Replace the axle nuts with new ones, tighten them pretty tight, and stake them down into the groove on the axle.
43) Put a Jumper wire into the wires of the neutral safety switch lead, or your car WILL NOT START. I can't remember what colors they are, just remember what plug you took off the safety switch, and jump the two leads in it.
44) Put your wheels back on
45) Take the car off the jackstands
46) Fill the tranny with fluid 3.5 quarts I believe.
47) Ensure that you have tightened all bolts.
48) Test the brakes and clutch system
49) Put the car in neutral, and start it (WITH THE EBRAKE ON, AND YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE... JUST IN CASE)
50) Test the car by SLOWLY easing out on the clutch with the car in a safe direction (push the damn thing into the drive way or something.. dont' do this step in the garage, or in a gear that would hurl you toward something of value. PLEASE GOD, DONT DO THAT) If the car starts to move... depress the clutch again, and test reverse... or first, if you started in reverse. If all is in order, take it for a low speed test drive on a safe road with low traffic. Make sure to go though ALL OF THE GEARS, to ensure proper working order. If all is well...

ENJOY YOUR NEW MANUAL TRANSMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again, I am not responsible for any damage you cause to your car, property, or yourself. By reading this, you understand, acknowledge and agree to these terms.

[ricks89gl]

Re: transmission swapping??

My question is... I put a N/A MTX on a F2T motor, I didn't grab the MTX starter though, can I use the GT or N/A ATX one? Or do I need the MTX one?

[evhgame]

Re: transmission swapping??

For all that typing, I think the man deserves a round of applause!!!
I almos tthink that should be a sticky. Seems to be a common subject. 1 vote for sticky!

[abrasivecarbide]

Re: transmission swapping??

it already is sticky......in the F2 FAQ!

[FLAPOC-Pres]

Re: transmission swapping??

Good job on the instructions

I think the starters are the same Rick.

[ricks89gl]

Re: transmission swapping??

I hope they're the same, I'm tired of spending money!

[evhgame]

Re: transmission swapping??

it already is sticky......in the F2 FAQ!

Oh

[abrasivecarbide]

Re: transmission swapping??

haha

[MixedupPGT]

Re: transmission swapping??

Swapping out the tranny from ATX to manual is a rough project, one that took myself over three weeks and around $750.....a lot of trial and error. And oh yeah....carefull with that auto tranny when you drop it out, cause it is nothing else like dropping a 400+lb trans on your chest...or picking up and carrying yourself for more than 15 feet....believe me on that one. In the end, it was a real difference between night and day.
Anyhooo....I don't like to post much at all, but let me know if you need any little info.

[FAST_91]

Re: transmission swapping??

Yes, the starters are the same.

[ricks89gl]

Re: transmission swapping??

Excellent, and thanks for the permission to use this as a writeup on my webpage FAST_91

[FAST_91]

Re: transmission swapping??

Excellent, and thanks for the permission to use this as a writeup on my webpage FAST_91

No problem.