2.5 MTX Clutch Will Not Disengage!?!?! Please Read....

[Tommy]

I finally figured out why the wheels were locked up on this MX6 it had nothing to do with the transmission...

So now the wheels free spin when front end is on jack stands GREAT! like its suppose to..

Now it feels like the shifter will not go into any of the gears. when vehicle is off when its in neutral. i started it and the same thing happens it trys to take off. when i hold the brakes to prevent the wheels from spinning it trys to start but feels like its dead because of the load it has on it..

So I jammed it in second and tryed starting it, the wheels spin ten times faster then they would if it was in neutral.

OK Here is what i have done I know the clutch is on the right way. I have bleed the clutch several times, and i know the T.O. Bearing is pressing the Pressure Plate! I have a full clutch pedal.

When the car is sitting on the ground it will not roll in neutral, but wheels will free spin when off the ground one go's one way the other goes in the opposite direction


I am at a lost people, My wife is complaining that im always wasting my time on this car and she is bitching. I need to get this thing done. so this is aimed at the Pro's here. please give me a hand

[prplvteceatr]

Sounds like a broken gear selector fork.

[Tommy]

Sounds like a broken gear selector fork.

How do they break? because the car was driving fine before the clutch blew apart

[prplvteceatr]

How do they break? because the car was driving fine before the clutch blew apart

Have you ever seen one LOL it is a thin piece of cast steel n e ways it sounds like its stuck in gear idk how or why but thats what it seems like just reading what u r writing. its either that our the clutch is not working right. but then you would be able to get it outa gear with the engine not running and should be able to start it off the stands. which makes me think its the gear selector stuck in gear.

[Tommy]

I wish i knew what you were talking about so i can check it

[prplvteceatr]

I wish i knew what you were talking about so i can check it

Im not sure if there is a way to check it with the trans in the car But If you have checked out everything and are sure that everything is installed right Than pull the trans and seperate the halfs of the case there is a fork like thing on a rod that moves the gears if you need one i have one I think BUT MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS RIGHT clutch etc before doing this. It is kinda a pita at least I think it is. But it can be done. Just take your time.

[Tommy]

If the pressure plate bolts were snug bolt to loose would that cause this problem??

[prplvteceatr]

If the pressure plate bolts were snug bolt to loose would that cause this problem??

Wouldnt that just make it slip really easy?

[Tommy]

I really dont understand how they work but that's why i asked.

Also i meant to say "But too loose" not "bolt to loose"

[probius]

Don't get defensive, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have a few basic questions that need answers before I can offer appropriate advice.

I gather you recently put a new clutch in the car. I believe you removed the transmission to do so.

Did you disconnect the gear change rod that goes from the bottom of the shifter to the transmission. Did you reconnect it? Did you put new bushing in the rod ends?

Are you certain the lever arm that the clutch slave cylinder presses on is pivoting correctly on the pivot point when you press the clutch pedal?

How much trouble did you have with the rear engine mount bolts? How old is the rear engine mount? Is it sagging, torn etc?

[Tommy]

I gather you recently put a new clutch in the car. I believe you removed the transmission to do so.

Yes

Did you disconnect the gear change rod that goes from the bottom of the shifter to the transmission. Did you reconnect it?

Yes

Did you put new bushing in the rod ends?

No (it looked fine)

Are you certain the lever arm that the clutch slave cylinder presses on is pivoting correctly on the pivot point when you press the clutch pedal?

Yes

How much trouble did you have with the rear engine mount bolts? How old is the rear engine mount? Is it sagging, torn etc?

The only problem i had with this mount was the one bolt was crossed threaded from before so i could only get it in half way but the other two bolts are fine. other then that it looks fine

[mcdonn]

OK. First, you have a differential driving the front wheels. If the input shaft to the tranny is not allowed to turn, then when you rotate one wheel, the other wheel will rotate in the opposite direction. It does not mean the tranny is OK, it just means your Differential is working OK. So lets get deeper into it. All of the following is done with the key OFF, the engine NOT running, and preferably witht eh NEG terminal off the battery:

First check - put the tranny in nuteral, then get someone to help you. Hold one wheel still while you rotate the other wheel in either direction. You should feel a little more drag and possibly hear the tranny output shaft rotating.

Check 2 - Try to rotate both front wheels in the same direction. They should both turn fairly easily any you may hear the tranny output shaft turn (slight gear mesh noise) but the engine/crank should not be trying to turn. If the wheels are difficult to turn and the crankshaft is trying to turn, then you are in gear, not nutral, or tour tranny is locked (broken or bent shift fork) Check the linkage.

Check 3 - Put the tranny in first gear and attempt to turn both front wheels in a forward (like your driving forward) direction. It will be a little harder to turn, but you should not have trouble doing it. The crank should turn while you are turning the wheels -(DO NOT TURN BOTH WHEELS IN THE OTHER DIRECTION (REVERSE) unless you are in reverse gear - If your timing belt tensioner is weak, you could make the crank jump a tooth in timing.)

Check 4 - Try each of the other four gears in order (2-3-4-5). It should get progressivly harder to turn both wheels in the same direction (again - DO NOT TURN BOTH IN 'REVERSE'.) as you are trying to turn the engine thru faster with each higher gear. If you can't turn it thru, just verify that the crank is trying to turn in the correct direction.

Check 5 - Go back to first gear, turn both wheels thru as you would be driving forward. Crank should rotate. Have helper push in the clutch pedal while you are turning the wheels. Watch the clutch fork and slave cylinder rod move as the pedal is pushed. As clutch pedal is pressed in to point where it starts slipping, you should see crank slow/stop turning, hear the clutch disk slipping on the flywheel, and the wheels should get easier to turn. Once the clutch is in far enough, the flywheel & crank should stop turning, and it should be as easy to turn the wheels thru as it was when in neutral.

If all but check 5 work correctly, you get slave & fork movement (about 0.75"), and clutch never disengages when you push in the clutch pedal, you will be pulling the tranny again as you have a clutch or pressure plate issue - It is not disengaging. Make sure they are the correct part numbers, verify that the clutch disk slips all the way on and off the tranny input shaft splines very easily (should have small amount of high temp grease on the shaft splines.) If your flywheel was refaced, borrow a caliper (or take it back to vendor/shop) and check the offset between the friction face and the pressure plate mounting bolt bosses. Typically they would remove friction face and not mounting boss so the clutch would not grip as well as it should. However, if they cut both, then they may have cut the bosses too much, and the pressure plate will not release.

Also - It is very important that the flywheel-to-crank and pressure plate-to-flywheel bolts be locked with breakable locktite, and torqued per the specs. If the PP bolts are "not too tight" they will back out, tear up the bell housing, and possibly wedge and blow out a chunk of tranny housing or engine skirt. Please don't run with non-torqued bolts, I hate to see another tranny die.

[Tommy]

Ok when one wheel is touching the ground (the same as some one holding it) it is locked and will not move. same with both wheels on the ground it will not move in neutral or 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc

Slave and fork movement is fine.

The wheels will only spin when there both off the ground one will spin in reverse

[slinkyPgT]

OK. First, you have a differential driving the front wheels. If the input shaft to the tranny is no t allowed to turn, then when you rotate one wheel, the opposite wheel will rotate in the opposite direction. It does not meen the tranny is OK, it just means your Differential is working OK.

no this only means the side gear and spider gears are working not the entire diff..the actual carrier need to turn in order for a diff to be consider good

First check - put the tranny in nuteral, then get someone to help you. Hold one wheel still while you rotate the other wheel in either direction. You should feel a little more drag and possibly hear the tranny output shaft rotating.

umm a tranny output shaft is a axle shaft...theres a input shaft..a main shat and a countershaft...in which in neutral all gears (not shafts) will be moving with 0 power transfered

Next check - Try to rotate both wheels in the same direction. They should both turn fairly easily any you may hear the tranny output shaft turn (slight gear mesh noise) but the engine should not be trying to turn. If the wheels are difficult to turn and the crankshaft ir trying to ruen, then you are in gear, not nutral. Check the linkage.

yes the wheel should turn easily and the main,counter shafts are turning along with the diff. and if u cant turn the wheels either a ^ur not in neutral or your trans is shot

Check 3 - Put the tranny in first gear, and attempt to turn both wheels in a forward (like your driving forward) direction. It will be a little harder to turn, but you should not have trouble doing it. The crank should turn while you are turning the wheels -0 DO NOT TURN BOTH WHEELS IN THE OTHER DIRECTION (REVERSE) unless you are in reverse gear - If your tensioner is weak, you could make the crank jump a tooth in timing.

you wont be able to do this...turning 6 cylinders over at a time through the friction of a tranny...not happening maybe with the plugs out of the motor

Check 4 - Try each of the other four gears in order (2-3-4-5). It should get progressivly harder to turn both wheels in the same direction (again - DO NOT TURN BOTH IN 'REVERSE') as you are trying to turn the engine thru faster with each higher gear. If you cant turn it thru, just verify that the crank is trying to turn in the correct direction.

Check 5 - Go back to first gear, turn both wheels thru as you would be driving forward. Crank should rotate. Have helper push in the clutch while you are turning the wheels. Watch the clutch fork and slave cylinder move as the pedal is pushed. As clutch pedal is pressed in to point where it starts slipping, you should see crank slow/stop turning, and hear the clutch disk slipping on the flywheel and pressure plate faces. Once the clutch is in far enough, the flywheel & crank should stop turning, and it should be as easy to turn the wheels thru as it was when in neutral.

If all but check 5 work correctly, you get slave & fork movement (about 0.75"), and clutch never disengages when you push in the clutch pedal, you will be pulling the tranny again as you have a clutch or pressure plate issue - It is not disengaging.

Also - It is important that the flywheel to crank and pressure plate to flywheel bolts should be locked with breakable locktite, and torqued per the specs. If the PP bolts are "not too tight" they will back out, tear up the bell housing, and possibly wedge and blow out a chunk of tranny housing or engine skirt. Please don't run with non-torqued bolts

wouldn't you check the operation of the slave first? before you go through that madness of a trans issue diagnosis???

there are shift selector pins in the tranny too that may have broken or fell out depending on what abuse you/someone else put it through

Ok when one wheel is touching the ground (the same as some one holding it) it is locked and will not move. same with both wheels on the ground it will not move in neutral or 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc

Slave and fork movement is fine.

The wheels will only spin when there both off the ground one will spin in reverse

so u can going into any gear and you cant start the car in any gear correct?


either
1.bent clutch pedal
2.air in system
3 throw out bearing not in position /installed correctly
4 PP not tightened down enough as the diaphragm fingers arent compressing enough for the clutch to disengage
5 clutch fork is not on locating pin

[Tommy]

either
1.bent clutch pedal
2.air in system
3 throw out bearing not in position /installed correctly
4 PP not tightened down enough as the diaphragm fingers arent compressing enough for the clutch to disengage
5 clutch fork is not on locating pin

No I can't get it into any gear at least it does not feel like it. Like i said before when i started the car it took of in neutral. then to make shure i was not in gear i jammed it into second and the tires spun ten times faster just off of the starter motor. I also (in neutral) started it while holding the brakes and it damn near wouldn't even turn over because i was preventing the tires from moving when the front end was in the air


1. Clutch pedal is fine it was driving before it came to my garage for a new clutch
2. I have bled the clutch several times
3. T.O. Bearing is sliding properly on input shaft, and is pressing pressure plate
4. you might be right, but would this cause the symptoms? Because first i tightened the pp bolts down to tight and had no clutch. then loosened them to as close as i could to torque specs w/o torque wrench they should be just about hand tight. this is when i got my clutch pedal back and all this other crap happened.

5.If this is the thing that moves the T.O. Bearing then it works just fine