Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

[skelly]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

I am having a hard time finding a place to work on 2.5. I had the clutch replaced some how it got a bad ground and, then I took it to the dealer to do the knock out box and they said that the timing went out on it and will need a new engine? Any one know of a shop it the chicago, IL area to rebuild or fix it

I don't see how grounding or timing problems could ever result in you needing a new engine. The information is too cryptic to draw any real conclusion though. You should post your entire experience in the maintenance forum and see what people think - maybe you just need something simple. Remember, it's the dealer's job to SELL you stuff, not to give you good advice.

[desertfox1313]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

er.... Honestly.. carrera i have no idea what your talking about...

I am not sure about a clutch ground... are you speaking electrical??>

And a knock out box?

Maybe I just know MMUUUUCH less then i thought i did....

Also a specific post in the maintnence forum would probably net a much larger response.... if you do have to replace the motor look into a KLZE engine... well worth the money..

[skyline_gtr_8]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

Well, this post of extremely significant. Good work guys. My dad and i are planning on having the PGT rebuilt, Do you know of any shops in central Michigan who could do this?

[desertfox1313]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

Well... seeing as i am unemployed right now I am going to try and condense this thread, while much of the discussions are great.. there is a lot of chit chat that should be removed, and some things that just ended up not panning out.

Trevor

[MS99k]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

Hey Guys,

Im new to all this and dont really know much about working with engines, but i was hoping you guys could help me build a list on what to bring to show a machine shop or mechanic on what exactly i should do to make my motor strong enough, to run N/A basically bolt on's KL03 motor. Right now i have a KL (American Version) with 59K almost 60K miles on it, with a blown head gasket. I want to get the motor rebuilt so it can take being run up to the 7K Redline and now blow up in 10K miles, i want to get anywhere from 50K - 100K miles out of this job. I've read this thread maybe 10 times, and i really dont understand alot of it, im not a master mechanic but this is what i have seem to find.

- Flat Lander Rebuild Kit (Take somewhere to get installed?)
- Oil Pump (Possibly shimmed...what exactly does that do and would it be very necessary)
- water pump
- Timing belt tensioner arm
- 10mm ARP Bolts it balanced correctly by machineshop
- New Rods
- Stainless Spring Retainers

And what about Valve Guides, Valve Springs, Rering Pistons? And the oil problem on the #6 port, anything i should worry about?

Basically i want to be able to run the car thru its paces it may be run hard 50% of the time. but if i put the money into this i dont want to be SOL in a month or two.

Also did I miss alot? thanks alot for the help guys i really appriciate it.

[desertfox1313]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

I made a thread similarly titled down a bit... titled engine rebuild compliled list or something like that... It basically outlined the list of stuff.. its just a rough guide.. but somewhere to start

[carmenpzito]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

Connecting Rods: Many options with rods. Millenia rods are reportedly 40% stronger. Cryotreatment or shotpeening are possible for hardening as well. Forged rods are an option, however 90% of this board will never need forged rods. We simply do not build our engines to this point.
Pricing ???

Pistons: Weisco has the blueprints for some nice 8.7:1 Forced Induction Pistons (utilize Millenia Rods). Paeco and others make custom higher/lower compression pistons.
Pricing starts near $700/set of 6.

Piston Rings: Chrome-moly, Gapless, etc. I don't know much and don't have pricing.

Block: ToastiER knows where to get copper head gaskets and I believe block guards. Neither of those are really needed outside forced induction. Boring the block is very possible. I think .080" is possible w/o resleeving. Resleeving requires a VERY experianced machine shop. The more you overbore, you get closer to having to re-do the upper girdle and/or add a block guard. Problem with the girdle/guard is that you have to have them welded into place, then have the block re-bored/honed. Changes can be made to the oil passageways, specifically the #6. Boring/Honing costs ~$300-$350 sometimes more for larger bores, and significantly more if you're resleeving/block guarding.

Um... that's all I'm prepared to type at this point. I'd REALLY love for like 10 or so smart people to come in here and add/subtract/restate things and make this something that in the end we would have a very nice list of options and guidlines that we could point people to.

That said, get to work.

Chrome-moly piston rings may be tough to find though, seeing how they don't exist. A common mistake is to look for chrome-moly rings when there are chrome rings and moly rings. They are separate materials for separate rings; manufacturers don't make that type of alloy for pistons; according to speed channel.

[elektromaniak]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

hi guys, I am about to do a swap
and I was wondering if the TOGA flatlander high flow oil pump really worth it?

my engine is NA but fully customized pulley, fidanza flywheel and more...

Should I just keep my stock pump? it seem in great shape

[skelly]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

Okay, I got the low-down on o-ringing today from my machinist. He says there are a couple different ways to do it, but here's what's "typical":

1) For heads that have a non-cicular compression ring (I've never seen one myself, but apparently they exist) they tend to cut the groove into the head; He says this is because it requires a CNC to trace out the pattern and the head is easier to mount onto the CNC than an entire block.

2) For heads that have cicular compression ring the groove is cut into the block because it doesn't require a fancy CNC configuration to cut this.

3) The groove receives a steel ring which rests such that it is a few thousandths above the surface of the deck. When a gasket is laid over it and the heads are torqued down on top of it, it provides an added degree of pressure to the gasket in the shape of that ring all the way around. It's like increasing the amount of torque for the head bolts without actually having to do so. The increased pressure stands up to increased combustion pressures better than your flat OEM seal would.

4) Depending on the type of head gasket, some are made to have a receiving groove on the opposite side of the steel ring. I don't know what property of the gasket would determine this, but when it comes to copper head gaskets, my guess would be thickness - probably thinner gaskets require a receiving groove because there is less material to compress. A thicker gasket would be able to squish to accommodate the added ring pressure.

So I'm going to have my guy cut the groove into the block. I showed him the steel cylinder sleeves and he says he can cut it right into that without a problem and won't have to touch the aluminum. The heads would be completely untouched by this process. This is ideal case scenario to me because it shouldn't cost much, has maximum effect and doesn't require fancy CNC work that if done improperly could risk the entire head becoming scrap metal. Blocks are cheap. ZE heads are not.

Further, I inquired about the block guard. I will be making my own block guard on a mill and having him weld it in place. The welding is no problem at all. He confimed that it would have to have a beveled edge for the weld bead to get down in there. I asked what shape would be best for the bevel and he confirmed that a 45 degree cut would be just fine which is great because I can hand-file that rather than have to do some fancy mill work. I will pre-drill all the coolant passages into the block guard before having him put it in place because I don't know for sure that he would be able to do that after the fact.

[desertfox1313]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

So what exactly is the purpose of the block gaurds??

ANd i was quoted 500 for oring, 3angle valve job, and other standard headwork from a shop, including overboring .2 for my pistons.

Trevor

[skelly]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

The block guards enhance the seal by preventing the tops of the cylinders from moving under load. Our open deck block design allows them to flex around a bit under stress which invites the head gasket to give way on the seal and blow out, particularly on a boosted motor.

[Rayman]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

i checked out the shop again yesterday and they told me they (for me) put the grooves AND the ring on the block....the heads remained unchanged. he said that people would also put receiver grooves in the heads, but its not necessary

[Rayman]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

actually bore/hone SHOULD run under 200 bucks....typically shops charges 20-30 per cylinder....but u have to find a shop that has the right mounting plate that is for our 45 degree blocks....like with my shop, they had to fabricate one cuz they really only do 60 degrees or inlines....but the process shouldnt be expensive

[skelly]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

Now why was I under the impression that our blocks were 60 degrees?

Also Ray, regarding the pistons you're working on - will it be possible to get them at only .020 over instead of .040? Any further updates on your build/testing and the possible 12:1 pistons that can be milled to any CR?

[Rayman]

Re: Engine Build/Rebuild. Let's work together.

haha i had it the opposite....my bad, i meant to say they are used to the 45s and had to make the 60 plate for me