Diamond Piston Buyers... Please read!!!!

[KLZE Porsche]

I have built motors for years and I have never heard of such a gaggle from a manufacturer. I think perhaps Diamond should be on the Probetalk black list. There is absolutely no excuse for so many screw ups. I am glad that I wasn't in on this BB. So why have people decided to go with Diamond when Wiseco pistons has already been making pistons for the KL motor with Millenia "S" rods? The design is already on file and already proven. I don't believe that Wiseco would have made this grand of a screw up folley. Since I have built many race engines I can tell you from what I see that those pistons wouldn't have flown with any racing group whatsoever. Any race group would have boxed em up and thrown em back at Diamond. And their response that a gram of difference is like a spoon of oil and that a gram doesn't make any difference in a piston is total B/S. A company with a good reputation would never have made that statement if they wanted to continue doing business. If the screw ups continue I would highly recommend boxing all pistons up and sending them back for complete refund to include original shipping and return shipping. And if they refuse to satisfy then it would be time for a class action law suit. I would never put a crap set of pistons like that in one of my engines. I saw the photos that someone posted and there is a huge difference. They obviously can't get things right the first time nor the second nor the third. Black list them from Probetalk!

P.S. I believe the Wiseco info for 8.7:1 forged pistons is as below:

pistons 013392408
chrome plated wrist pin S527
RING SET 3347XC

[dmark101]

now before the above post is removed AGAIN, i put it back in this thread because IT IS PERTINENT!

there have been mistakes made by lesser manufacturers that have caused them to be removed as board vendors or have caused them to have flame threads posted. what the ****** is so special about diamond that makes them above reproach? huh?

i don't care if he wasn't in the bulk buy or not, what he says rings true and i had better not see this post removed.

[Spinkx79]

I have 10 Diamond pistons sitting here in a box that I dont really trust, if this:

Any race group would have boxed em up and thrown em back at Diamond.

were to happen i think i would jump on the bandwagon.

As for why people didnt choose Wiesco...they have not been problem free either.

Heres why I chose Diamond:

Jasbo
October 26th, 2005, 06:50 AM
I talked with Brian at Wiseco last night... he openly admitted to knowing there was a problem with the intake valve pockets, he told me they needed to be moved out more even before I could tell him what I saw on my pistons... So atleast the design side of Wiseco knows there's a problem here... but the shop side im sure doesnt care. They get an order, machine the parts and then ship em out.

I didnt really want to deal with a company that will knowingly sell crap because "they need to be moved"

mx6gt04
March 5th, 2006, 03:36 PM

Nah nah, theyre not bad. They just have deep valve pockets which means the cross section on the crown is relatively thin. They are some stout pistons, just that is their weak point. If you dont detonate, you'll never have a problem either way. Just something to be aware of, with a little detonation the crown could break off. Babybluemx3 did it to his wiseco's


TRWeiss1
April 3rd, 2006, 01:13 PM
Edit :: On another note, I don't think you'll be able to get any money from Wiseco. As they state on their disclaimer as soon as you open the box w/ your pistons in it, they carry no warranty, and are not responsible for what happens after installation.

[97BlkGTS]

Ok, i just got my car started up last night. I know i've been promising some comp. numbers, so i'll try extremely hard to get some this week. But, so far so good on the motor. My dad already has 2,000-3,000 on his motor and it runs great! But, i'll try to give you guys a review on my car and some numbers. Sorry for the delay.

[jmmdm2]

I have built motors for years and I have never heard of such a gaggle from a manufacturer. I think perhaps Diamond should be on the Probetalk black list. There is absolutely no excuse for so many screw ups. I am glad that I wasn't in on this BB.

Where did all this come from?

Why are you commenting on something you have had zero involvement in? Did you order from Diamond? Have you seen the pistons?

Normally I value your opinion but the comments you made trying to encourage a class action lawsuit... I can't even begin to to describe my disgust for this.

The original order had one flaw... they were made for an inline 6 rather than a V-6. I noticed the flaw on my own set and immediately posted the info and had the issue resolved.

If someone like CZT Rob sold these, no one would ever know there was a problem. He would've kept his mouth shut and let everyone install them. You want Diamond put on the PT black list? Really?

Do you actually know the story? The original sales rep quit right before I noticed there was an issue with the offsets. No, it had nothing to do with our orders. Another sales rep had to take over. He got started on the three replacements for each order. We had some bad press because ausloki ordered his original set just as this was going on. He had to wait a while and got anxious. He still didn't wait as long as I did for my first set. I understand being from another country, you wanna know where your order is but it was not easy keeping him up to date every day.

The line you wrote about wiseco not screwing up like this is really funny... don't think they'd have made such a screw up, huh? THEY ALREADY DID! The valve reliefs were so deep that the pistons broke for many buyers. Spinkx posted this two posts up...

We went with Diamond because they were also proven by a couple members on PT. You want to scare people by stating your comments about any race group sending them back? Why? What have you seen in the pics that's SO different? The height? Are you serious? They shaved the skirts on the new ones for what reason I don't know. The pin to the deck height is still the same. Shave the old ones and there's the extra gram.

Not perfection by any means BUT we all know it's not easy to buy parts for our motors. A simple shave isn't a big deal. 97blkgts has TWO motors running on these pistons now with no issues, that's not a good thing?

I haven't seen this thread in a couple days but guys, really... did everyone just snowball this in the past couple days? Have more posts been deleted?
I'd like to klnow what's being said about all of this. I'm not one to run away from a problem and I thought I had taken care of all buyers.

Spinkx, why do you not trust these pistons? Is this based on what KLZE Porsche said? I'm sorry you feel that way but are you going to be influenced by someone who's never installed or even seen these pistons?

I'm curious to see the reaction after shaodome installs his. Can we agree that his opinion is valued here on PT? I don't know what the outcome is going to be after his install so it could go either way. He went through more of an issue than others in this buy but he's coming out of it with free ceramic top coat on all pistons.

The other guys that ordered a high compression domed piston have a bit more to deal with as that design has never been tested. Diamond has also offered to re-cut any of those pistons that need it as well. What do you expect from an untested design never used before? 11.5:1 domed in the KL? It's gonna need a little work.

KLZE Porsche, feel free to call me if you like. I'd love to hear why you feel the way you do about a product you've never personally inspected. I'll PM my number if you want to call... I don't plan to have an arguement but like I said, I want to know why you've come in here and made these comments.

Right now, I have my own issues... My Probe is over 100 miles away in another state. The power steering pulley wore out and wore down the teeth on the PS pump shaft. It's at a severe angle and throwing belts while riding the bolts. It's not pretty. Stranded last night, money wasted on a hotel, gotta drive back with replacement parts in the morning... I really didn't need to see this thread today. When it rains...

[97BlkGTS]

Yes, i can vouch for these pistons. My motor builder does business with Diamond pistons. When this problem arose, he actually called diamond to find out what was going on on his own will. He is very close with them.

We put my pops motor in first and ran extremely strong! No knocks, banging, ticking, or anything. He has over 2,000 miles on it now. I just started my motor last night, and everything seems to be good.

As i know i promised compression numbers to jmmdm2, I've been just really busy lately. I will try to get them this week. I just gotta repair my power steering pump, align my car, readjust my coilovers, and install my bigger wheel spacers. My motor too, has no knocks, ticks, or any noise of that sort.

My dad is actually going to boost his car within this month, so I can give you guys a better idea if these pistons will hold. I can't think of any reason why they would not.

I'll try to keep you guys updated. But, for anyone that has 2nd thoughts on these, please do not. My motor builder said the 3 new pistons that were delivered had the correct offset.

[jmmdm2]

Hmmmm... you're doing a PS pump also? Interesting. I'll be doing mine in a parking lot tomorrow IF my car is still in one piece with four wheels/tires.

Once again, I don't understand why all this is coming up now. It's been a couple weeks since the last set of pistons was delivered. What did I miss?

Are people just looking through old posts trying to start shit? Is PT that boring as of late?

[97BlkGTS]

yea, i just got back from fixing my PS pump.....no leaks now. Hopefully it'll stay that way.

Has anyone else installed these pistons in their motor?

[jmmdm2]

Well... looks like big mouth has shut up (for the moment).

Bottom line, we have at least two motors running on these pistons without issue.

Anyone could purchase a correct set of pistons from Diamond right now. Correct offset and each an exact match, like it's supposed to be.

While at least one person built his motor and had to tear it down before I found out about the offset, we can all order three more pistons to complete our other half set and then sell the entire set to make back some money.

Diamond has a four piston min but they will do a special order for us.

These pistons are not poor quality or design... they are top quality and every motor built using them will be bullet proof. I'm starting to wonder if we have a salesman for wiseco here. Diamond is being used to take the heat off wiseco, they may have fixed their design but they still caused plenty of issues for many buyers.

[Spinkx79]

Spinkx, why do you not trust these pistons? Is this based on what KLZE Porsche said? I'm sorry you feel that way but are you going to be influenced by someone who's never installed or even seen these pistons?

No, i had been unsure of them since the second half showed up, smaller bump and sharper valve pocket cutting. Updated design? Updated why, whats wrong with mine? Nothing? Then why spend the time and money to update?

Proof is in the pudding , if many are problem free then not a problem but as of now i dont want to be the guinea pig for anyone. I will wait till there are some proven results which from the sounds of it will be coming soon.

Do you know know of anyone from the first round BB that has them installed or is everyone from the second round with all 6 of the updated version?

[shaodome]

First off Jmmdm2,

You do not need to defend diamond or anybody else in this thread. You have done a great thing for our dwindling community, so I know I am not the only one saying thanks.

This was the first go round with this and we got them for an exceptional price....did you all not think there might be some minor issues? So far it looks like all the motors who are using them are running just fine. My build has been pushed back due to a wedding and I bought a new mx6 shell (silverman). What good is a motor without a car to put it in

As far as I am concerned Diamond has gone well beyond what any other vendor on PT would have done (excluding PRD) to correct a problem. Yes they messed up my order again, but are attempting to make good on the problem. So far they are still on my good side. I would still take these pistons any day over a set of Wiescos currently offered for the KL engine.

Obviously those of you wanting to operate on a shorter time table are annoyed and have the right to be. Venting your frusteration is fine, but do not come down on the thread starter as I have seen in a few previous posts. Just go direct next time and pay the retail price

I too would like to know the reason behind the bashing from KLZE_Porsche. That is a lot of accusation without ever seeing the product and going from what I think is 2nd hand information.

[jmmdm2]

Do you know know of anyone from the first round BB that has them installed or is everyone from the second round with all 6 of the updated version?

There was no first or second round to the BB. The only order that was late enough to be made after the offset issue was the set that went to ausloki. I had been submitting orders for anyone that wanted a set because Diamond locked in the price for me.

What is sharper about the valve pockets anyway... mine all look the same. As for the compression bumps being a tiny bit larger or smaller, I don't get that. Mine are like that as well and I know the same must be true of 97BLKGTS. That's why I want comp numbers from him.

Here's two words: Carbon buildup

Carbon would have more of an impact on compression than the size of these bumps. Who's to say that the ceramic coat was increased in thickness my a micron or two, maybe that's why the bumps are smaller... to compensate.

I'm getting the impression that there were some posts I never saw, some which may have had comments about me. I know I gave my cell and my home number to each and every buyer. I gave my address as well and I'm not going anywhere. ANYONE that has anything to say had better call, PM, email, or show up if they have shit to talk. I can't tolerate little babies that hide behind their computers.

[ausloki]

As far as i know I was the last person to get my set.

These are currently at the workshop with my engine builder, I have stated many times that I have no problems with the organizer of this BB and give credit for all his hard work.

My engine won't be complete until i find a set of ZE heads cheap enough to finish it off and then i'll be able to do some compression numbers for all as well.

My set had no weight deviation between pistons when measured and offsets were correct (and they would be as jmmdm2 found the problem and had it resolved before mine were done)

My only problem was with the staff at diamond giving conflicting information with what i was getting from jmmdm2 and the frustration of not getting the correct responses from a so called professional business.

If i ever encounter a problem with a product that i have ordered I expect the manufacturer to come good and fix it within a timely fashion and at there expense regardless of who they are.

[jmmdm2]

That's my only complaint about Diamond as well... the information. I would send emails stating how I wanted to pay for orders and they always used a different account number sometimes costing me an overdraft fee of 25.00 each time.

I had a couple orders paid by money order so I had to cash them and deposit into my personal bank account. Diamond used that same account (or tried to) a few times when the money should have been taken from Paypal.

I actually called and spoke to the person that was in charge of the transactions... she still screwed it up. She's the same one that told ausloki there was no record of his order. I called back and found the order right away. One day they told me the wrist pins were back ordered then it was the rings... that was a pain in the balls.

[KLZE Porsche]

I too would like to know the reason behind the bashing from KLZE_Porsche. That is a lot of accusation without ever seeing the product and going from what I think is 2nd hand information.

I never bashed Jmmdm2 even once. I am the one here who is getting bashing from Jmmdm2 just as he has bashed anyone else who has posed comments about Diamond or their service. My comments were good ones as said by the following post that you must have missed. I think it is always good when someone tries to get items manufactured for these cars since I am also a fan of the car and it's potential. But it is not good when the manufacturer doesn't back up their product well and makes mistake after mistake.

I am guessing that I made a mistake by referencing Wiesco because I was unaware of problems with their KL pistons. But this still doesn't make the mistakes by Diamond all good! And as to the comment that keeps popping up about never seeing the product that isn't quite right -if you will read back in this very post you will find where someone posted photos of two of the pistons side-by-side and it wasn't hard at all for me to notice the difference. I told Jmmdm2 that I have a set of stock KL OEM pistons sitting on my shelves that look more cloned than these diamond ones do and they are only $125 dealer cost. They look identical other than the piston pin ofset variations from opposing banks. And they are probably balanced closer than the diamond ones were from what I have read in this post. And they require absolutely no machine work (skirt shaving).

For those that have problems with me posting my opinion about Diamond -my comment was directed towards DIAMOND and not an individual here on the board. And most of my (flame) remarks were due to what I read in the post about a Diamond Rep's repsonses to the screw ups. It just wasn't acceptable at all. I have never had to deal with manufacturers like that and I really don't have to because there are always others out there with competition. Ross also makes custom pistons! And there are others. If you have the right inside contacts you can get them to give you a competitive bulk buy price. Any custom piston manufacturer would do it if you purchase a bulk amount from them.

And you also said you would like to know why I felt I had to post. As I told jmmdm2 -this is America and there is a thing called freedom of speech. I am always concerned with customer support because it is part of my daily life. I hate to see people get ripped off and when a Diamond rep says that a gram of difference between pistons doesn't matter or that skirt differences or dome height differences don't matter -well that doesn't sit well with me. If I had manufactured the item I would never have made that statement. And if a rep (representing me or my business) had made those statements he/she would be looking for a new job. When a customer pays as much as you have paid for the pistons the customer should get first rate and not bad facts.

And last of all if anyone is still offended then please don't forget to read my signature and then just sit back and relax unless you like getting pissed-off over nothing!