Billet Oil Pump

[KaedenKy]

Anyone have any experience with these? The company I found, claimed better tolerances. Which, unless you were going to bump your redline is the only benefit I can see. However, the price was similar to new OEM and not much more than a Melling.

I can't post a link for clear reasons.

[LowClassCC]

following with interest.

[KaedenKy]

following with interest.

I guess there is a little interest. My assumption is the only reason they are made is the gear set is close to the Miata's.

I may pony up for you just out of curiosity.

[Mud Flight]

the problem with the kl stock pump is not the gears material is the housing it wont hold the stress and hi rpm oil volume it simply blows up ... This is what Leo323 had to say on Dec 7 2010. If you look at the housing there is a thin web opposite the pressure side that may need some extra support. Add some Boundary billet gears and you should have a pump that can handle high rpm and cost less then any part of a dry sump set up.

[KaedenKy]

the problem with the kl stock pump is not the gears material is the housing it wont hold the stress and hi rpm oil volume it simply blows up ... This is what Leo323 had to say on Dec 7 2010. If you look at the housing there is a thin web opposite the pressure side that may need some extra support. Add some Boundary billet gears and you should have a pump that can handle high rpm and cost less then any part of a dry sump set up.

It's a gear set, you machine out the stock housing to fit a billet ring with the internal gears, as well as a driven gear.

It should be interesting.

[mazda-head]

I think we need to be certain on the failure mode of an oil pump at high speed before trying to remedy something.
People have said "harmonics" for years, and such without ever explaining a precise failure mode. It could be anything from maxing out the bypass circuit and hydraulically choking the pump to pumping the oil pan near-dry at high RPM and sucking in some air; a case which could hydraulically hammer the pump mercilessly. Remember, that oil does take time to literally trickle by gravity back down into the pan, and if the pump is spinning at 8k, 3.5L of oil could quickly be put anywhere else in the engine except the pan.

I do know that my stock-parts ZE (valvetrain et al) has bounced off 8450rpm limiter for a couple of seconds with no ill effect. I usually run an overfilled crankcase by half to one quart though

[KaedenKy]

I just want to buy it for bling, I was actually hoping KLZEPorsche would chime in.

Looking around, the MIM/Powdered Metal pumps are relatively brittle in the overall scheme of materials.

Even if it is a harmonic torsional vibration issue, a stronger metal will handle the abuse longer. Billet's failure will also be plastic deformation and then loss of oil pressure, rather than shattering for the molded pieces. Meaning you won't send metal into your oil system.

I just stumbled upon it mostly and found it novel.

[SBPGT]

It could be anything from maxing out the bypass circuit and hydraulically choking the pump to pumping the oil pan near-dry at high RPM and sucking in some air; a case which could hydraulically hammer the pump mercilessly. Remember, that oil does take time to literally trickle by gravity back down into the pan, and if the pump is spinning at 8k, 3.5L of oil could quickly be put anywhere else in the engine except the pan.

I do know that my stock-parts ZE (valvetrain et al) has bounced off 8450rpm limiter for a couple of seconds with no ill effect. I usually run an overfilled crankcase by half to one quart though

I don't think that it would suck the oil pan dry? If the oil pressure is the resistance of the all the oil clearances, once it reached that oil pressure, all the extra oil is fed back to the pan via the bypass valve.

Wouldn't that show up on an oil pressure gauge. If you had large oil clearances you would probably have really low oil pressure at low RPM's, right? Unless you run your engine with massively huge oil clearances and try to hold high oil pressure than maybe you might drain the pan?

I do see what you are saying about the bypass being too restrictive. But if the oil was backed up would it keep sucking in more? I would think it wouldn't suck as much oil, but maybe try harder to compress the oil that backed up in the pump, maybe causing damage?

It would be nice to really find and fix the shortfalls of the KL oiling system. Instead of just saying "remove the oil squirters", "shim the pump", etc...

[RACERSNUT]

Taken as a whole, I'm pretty skeptical of the "oil system problem". But, I'm trying to keep an open mind. I'd like to hear from those that have purchased the Boundary gears. Have there been any other changes done besides just replacing the gears? How much increase in oil pressure has been seen? At idle? At 3K, 5K or even the aforementioned + 8K RPM?

Granted, KLZE Porsche has given us all information about checking cam clearances to avoid oil pressure issues. Furthermore, I'm pretty leary about shimming the pump as well.

I've bought 2 engines off of Craig's list to go ChumpCar racing. Only doing the typical maintenance type work, (timing belt, water pump, put in a set of cleaned injectors). I didn't even touch the oil system, other than use a ZR-1 oil filter and run about 1/2 quart over full. My engine failures have been related to head gasket issues primarily related to my own stupidity.

We beat on these engines for 8 to 10 hours in a day, and have yet to experience any sort of bearing failure/oil related issue. But, we're turning 6k to 6.5k RPM. I'm proud to say we finished a full days race 17th out of 44 cars. And the same result the next day, even though the engine finally went to see Jesus 20 minutes from the end of the race.

That's been my experience. Again, I'm open to listening to others.......

[mazda-head]

Those are good questions
Here's my speculation

Wouldn't that show up on an oil pressure gauge.

It shouldn't since cavitation would be happening at certain frequencies way too fast and far from the gauge to register- digital gauge might smooth it out with internal latency and a mechanical gauge has far too much hydraulic friction in the capillary tube _and prolly air) to really vibrate the needle. Given the latencies of both types of OP gauge, all you will see is a mean pressure that shouldn't be conspicuously changed. We're talking about just a little bit of air, foam, bubbles of gas that can expand and contract rapidly during the pressure changes and at 8K+ that's bad news.

If you had large oil clearances you would probably have really low oil pressure at low RPM's, right? Unless you run your engine with massively huge oil clearances and try to hold high oil pressure than maybe you might drain the pan?

I take it most people run 5w30 in their KL and when driving hard it's viscosity can drop well below 10cSt, all of the oiling points are indeed fixed but the flow volume through them increases as the viscosity drops, the larger the oiling point ie oil sprayers, the more flow through it with viscosity drop. The increase in throughput volume, the positive displacement nature of the pump and the fixed nature of the wide open bypass circuit can possibly pump the stock pan volume right out of the pan before gravity draws it all back down, it can take even longer to fall by gravity with the considerable windage at 8+k. Remember, a positive displacement pump always moves it's full volume with each revolution and the pump is designed to maintain pressure at 600rpm... to 8k+ rpm, the same volume of oil is being displaced with each and every revolution.

That can possibly overwhelm the bypass circuit as well,which feeds the rejected volume of oil back into the intake side via a labyrinth channel. At very high RPM, there would be a considerable recirculation of rejected displacement from the oil pump and the volume that the bypass circuit deals with will increase lockstep with RPM. This can unduly raise the temperature of the oil as well before it even leaves the pump.

Those are some things I'd imagine, anyway. First things I'd do with a stock pump for high RPM I guess would be enlarging the capacity of the bypass circuit ie drill out the side orifice in the bypass piston valve bore and opening the labyrinthine channel that feeds back to the suction side, and also shim the spring since with the larger bypass bore- the same travel opening would equate in a larger orifice. And run almost a quart over on the stock pan so the pickup never gets down to the 'head'