$20 Ignitor Replacement/upgrade

[KevinD]

'95+ HEI Module Wiring:
The Blue with Orange stripe wire on one end (pin 6) of the 6-pin connector (C134) is the drive pulse from the PCM: this goes to Pin G of the HEI Module. (No change from pre-'95).
The negative side of the coil, which is the Yellow with Green stripe wire at pin 2 (middle) on 3-pin connector (C170) for '95+, goes to the HEI module pin C.
The positive (+12V) coil terminal is the Black with Pink stripe wire on pin 1 of the 3-pin (C170) connector for '95+, and it connects to the HEI module pin B.
Pin W of the HEI module connects to ground, along with the mounting holes.
The problem is (I've heard) that the '95+ distributor has the ICM output-to-coil lead (the strap that is removed in the '93-'94 distributor) potted in (you can't get to it to cut it). This will be a problem if the ICM (Ignition Control Module, the stock ignitor) is shorted.
Can you post a link to a picture of the inside of the '95 distributor, particularly the 3-pin connector?
KevinD

[Sisqo94turbo]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24...c/DSCN1746.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24...c/DSCN1747.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24...c/DSCN1748.jpg


I can get closer pics if need be.

[KevinD]

Is the part shown in the first picture (I think it's the coil) removable? If so, can you post up a link to a picture of the underside of the coil (around the 3-pin connector)?
Or, you could just remove the ICM (the M67580 3-legged device) altogether, and that should do it.
KevinD

[Sisqo94turbo]

Is the part shown in the first picture (I think it's the coil) removable? If so, can you post up a link to a picture of the underside of the coil (around the 3-pin connector)?
Or, you could just remove the ICM (the M67580 3-legged device) altogether, and that should do it.
KevinD

not sure if the "coil" is removable in the first pic....I will check. The m67580 device is soldered at the pin conections. If I remove this....I can't turn back.

[maxamillion]

Found this on another thread, how to mod the disty cap. I figure it's pretty relevant to this thread.
http://www.supermotors.org/vehicles/...=30851#content

[Pacman123]

Hi guys. I thought I would post this, since as far as I could see, I couldnt really find a write up for a GE2 (95+) dizzy.

My distributor finally packed up last saturday. I just finished work, cranked her over, she started, then died. Tried to start again and nothing, dead as a doorknob. LOL. I had to get towed all the way from town to my house which is about 20 odd kilometres, and I thank Contempo heaps for doing that. I decided to finally do the HEI mod, which i was preparing for a long time ago. About time really, haha.

Here are some pictures of what I did:
Dont worry, the MSD coil is only temporarily there. I am waiting on a Coil bracket.
http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/268/dsc004194zw.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5069/dsc004178sg.jpg

Here is the wiring diagram for the HEI unit (I hope you guys didnt mind me altering your diagrams):
http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/3551/heige26gb.gif

And heres a diagram for the HEI unit with an external coil (remember to disconnect the 3 pin plug from the Distributor):
http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/4...lheige26zx.gif

Just to point out, it just seems to be the reverse of the GE1 wiring, and you dont need a tacho feed, as the ecu already has its own. Another point is that in the GE2 distributor, there is a tower going from the internal coil to the distributor cap. I cut that off just to make sure the spark doesnt go anywhere it shouldnt. I also of course had to drill into the distributor cap to put the 'power tower' in to allow for the external coil.

Thanks all for the inspiriation of doing this. The GE1s were very successful, I had to try a GE2. Remember, this is just a guide, it all worked for me. I can not be hold responsible for any mistakes or anything that doesnt work. Thanks again all.

[leska]

This is a complete waste of time on the 95 disty..

I have just completed this mod last weekend over the 4th holiday and it works like a charm on my 95 PGT/ZE. Much more stable idle and more power early in the band. The tach works just fine with the resistor inline.

Oddly enough, a bit less exhaust smell with the JJ test pipe as well. Looks like it's getting a more complete burn.

I stopped by a racing shop in town and picked up a new MSD Blaster 2 coil, bracket and ACCEL performance HEI module. Bolted the HEI to the bracket that holds the engine compartment fuse box and the battery ground wire. I moved the ground wire to another bolt, buffed up the bracket with a dremel for good contact and coated it with heatsink compound under the module.

The wiring diagrams listed in this post vary greatly. For many of you who've seen my previous posts in past years regarding the MSD 6A, you'll know I'm mighty familiar with the PGT ignition wiring and how to mod it for aftermarket. After reviewing all the diagrams on this post I could find, some of the hand drawn sketches I've seen have the 3-pin tab shown backwards, and a few are workable but probably not the best idea. Here is why:

First off, I answered my own previous question with a call into MSD techs. You should not attempt to run the trigger from an MSD6A directly off of the GM HEI. The HEI pulses are too strong for the MSD trigger circuit and will kill the box. MSD makes an adapter for GM 4pin HEI that converts the trigger signal and "removes" the HEI module completely.

Next, a few of the diagrams show clipping into the 3 pin coil wire plug to fire the internal coil from the HEI without modifying the coil strap in the disty....and some show running an external coil while still clipping into the 3pin harness without cutting the wires. Both not a great idea for everyone across the board....you should at minimum cut the coil strap to disconnect the failed ignitor from the negative side of the primary.

The internal ignitor can fail in such a way that it "leaks" primary voltage to ground. If you attempt to energize the primary via the HEI and are leaking off voltage to "ground" via the failed ignitor, you'll get a weak spark or no spark at all. Remeber, the coil is always charged with the positive and then collapses by being suddenly grounded via the ignitor. You need a good solid charge for strong spark. My guess is this is why some of you get ignition miss under load when trying this mod.

Having the internal coil attached while using an external coil should be obvious. If you're leaking power to ground via the old ignitor...this is #1 problem. However, you're also charging and discharging two coils. Basically cutting your available power down and stressing your HEI. This could explain the heat issues with many of your HEI burnout responses. Dissipating the power built up in the primary coil via sudden grounding is crucial to solid spark. As the heat builds in the HEI module, it's "clamping" ability on the ground side fails quickly. More stored coil energy to ground out (2 coils) = more heat = failed HEI.

I'll post some pics of the install and a wiring diagram.

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/hei/hei.jpg
http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/hei/coil.jpg
http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/hei/captap.jpg

I'm not sure what the sense is in doing this mod without using an external coil. The internal PGT coil is weak at best and modifying the disty cap takes a drill, some high temp epoxy and 10 minutes.

Kudos to the guy that thought of this though! I had ripped out my MSD and gone back to a rebuilt complete disty after I got stranded way up north (BWCA) when the MSD failed and paid one hefty tow charge to civilization.

After going through 4 (yes FOUR) warranty replacement distributors in the last 18 months I had reached my limit. Now I can carry a spare HEI in the glove compartment and if need be, replace a coil with just about any old 12v canister to get me back to running until another performance coil is on hand.

[leska]

so ive only heard confirmed success on 93-95 distys but will what leska and pacman talked about ('95 installs) work on a '96 distributer? my ignition is working fine now and i dont want to blow anything up experimenting.

I can't see why it wouldn't....

Our distributors are exactly the same. My 95 PGT has the second distributor design that can exchange with 96-97...same part number.

Otherwise as long as you wire the PCM feedback wire (green on 3pin) and the yellow tach wire correctly, the PCM shouldn't be aware that anything has changed. All it looks for is positive 12+ from the coil primary interrupted by sudden pulses from being grounded out. Put your 1k resistor inline on the yellow (center) wire on the 3pin to protect the tach and all should be fine.

I'd use both the 5v trigger wire AND the black ground from the 6pin harness, not just the trigger...I will get around to making a diagram of how I did it with better pics.

The odd thing is that you're really not "changing" the design that much. You're just putting it all outside the disty....which is ironically how Mitsubishi did it on their 3000GT's for a while with the module on a bracket (and it had a 6pin/3pin config)....and they designed our distributors. I'd like to think an EE from Mitsu called a buddy at Ford/Mazda and told them they were idiotic for requesting it all internal.

[MAURO]

An alternate part for the HEI is the LX301 by Blue Streak, if you want to add it to the list of alternatives.

[leska]

HEI Diagrams

After helping someone today over IM, I realized it can be easy to damage a coil or the HEI if you do this wrong, so time to get these diagrams out on here.....

This is the 1995 diagram. Use it everyday and it works without issue.

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/pro...nstall1995.jpg

This is the 1996 diagram based on the wiring colors people have relayed back to me. The other 6 pin harness wires may NOT be the right color, but who cares, they have nothing to do with it.

I'm told one of the 3 pin wires is BLUE in 1996-97 and the trigger wire is now orange/green. So it looks like this:

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/pro...nstall1996.jpg

If you have any issues, before IM'ing anyone, go to walmart and pop the big $2 to buy one of these in the automotive section:

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/led_tester.jpg

You may say : "Well I've already got a digital or analog meter." Great for you...it won't do you near squat to diagnose this whole scenario. The pulses are too fast for your meter to pick them up correctly unless you popped for a $500 Fluke tester.

To test if you have a trigger signal, which means your internal distributor as well as the crank sensors are functioning correctly, do the following.

Take the LED tester and either hold it's pin lead against connection "G" on the HEI, or use an alligator clip to connect the two. Connect the LED's black wire with alligator clip to your battery ground. REMOVE your coil wire if you have it already plugged in. Crank your car. You should see the red LED light blink every time the trigger pulse signal is sent. This verifies your trigger circuit is working.

Test the HEI is working:

With everything plugged in as you think it should go, take the LED tester and place the pin on connection "C" of the HEI (our use an alligator clip if you're solo). Clip the LED black wire to the battery negative. Disconnect the coil wire again. When you turn the ignition on, the LED will come on. As you crank, it will blink very quickly (turn the lights in the room off if necessary). This verifies your HEI is working correctly.

Test the COIL is working:

Remove your coil wire from the distributor side and plug a spark plug into it. Ground the spark plug threads to something you are SURE is ground. Disconnect everything from the + and - of the coil. Run a jumper lead from the coil positive to the battery positive. ATTACH another jumper to the coil negative and VERY quickly tap a ground source with the other end of the wire. You should see spark jump on the plug. DO NOT let the negative side stay connected to ground for more than a fraction of a second or you will be buying a new coil. This verifies the COIL is functional...maybe not great, but enough to start the car.

If you have trigger signal, HEI working and a coil that throws spark, you have what you need to start the car.

If you'd like to see my ghetto example of testing a coil for someone on my cell phone camera, go here and have a laugh.

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/spark.wmv

Enjoy.

[leska]

Oh man thanks a lot for the info above, I really needed it. The diagrams are very helpful, I will need to do this on my 96 immediately.. Thanks.

On the 96 though, I thought that you do not need the resistor??

Yes, you do need it...... but where did you hear that you didn't need it? I'd like to review that info.

The 95 -97 distributors are interchangeable. The resistor is built into the ignitor/coil module. I would think this makes it a requirement.

Question. If I just run a ground wire from the battery to the W ground pin on the HEI, will that work, or do I need to ground off the entire backside of the HEI module?

The car will start but your HEI module will be very short lived.

You need to ground out the entire back side of the HEI. I've always suggested you should even use heat sink compound on the back of it like installing into a GM distributor. My ACCEL HEI box came with a tube of it. But you can get it at radio shack as well. It's not the same as dielectric grease....someone asked me that recently.

The HEI grounds out the 12v coil every time a spark plug goes pop. That is a huge amount of heat and energy for such a little box to get rid of....which is why our OEM ignitors fail as well.

[leska]

Gotcha. *sigh* Now to figure out where to mount this damn thing. I need to be in bed...I'm taking the ACT test in 7 hours.

Mount it on the metal strap right below the relay box in the engine compartment. You just have to move the ground wires to the left one bolt.

There is a tab of metal that bends upward on that bracket. Bend it down so the bracket is flat and then take a dremel or similar with a sanding drum and buff all the junk off it until it's shiny metal.

Put the HEI there, mark the holes and then drill two holes to mount it.

From here it's easy to route two wires around the right side of the battery to the frame below the radiator cap and hoses. There is a big flat open area all set to be drilled and have the coil mounted.

You may have to 86 the battery tray bracket under the tray.

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/hei/hei.jpg

http://leskanet.no-ip.org/images/probe/hei/coil.jpg

[KevinD]

If your stock ignitor failed in your 96 dizzy, then why do you care if you bypass it or not. It's not working.

If the stock ICM (ignitor) failed shorted, then it must be bypassed for the HEI module to work.

because i thought that i couldnt do it with the 96 disty! then again i may be wrong... but what were you talkin about switchin the 3 wires??? to the coil? is that why i am not gettin the 6 v signal form the computer... wrong wire?

Look at the '93 & '96 drawings and connectors in this thread, and you'll see the changes that need to be made.
KevinD

[neilh2o]

igniter failures

i didnt do the hei mod but i know (being an electronics tech) that it will work just fine if the OEM igniter transistor is going bad.. when my 93 igniter was intermittently shutting down the engine and misfiring i had the car diagnosed at a Ford dealer. the diagnostic trouble code came up code 2: CID sensor ...the sensor is embedded in the internal distributor module (under the rotor and shield)...there are two hall effect sensors (CID and CKP sensors) and a transistor that fires the coil.. all of these components are embedded in the module...they wanted to charge me almost $1000 for a new distributor... i said no thanx, paid the $100 diagnostic charge and got a rebuilt disty from an auto parts store... bad idea..i went thru 3 so called rebuilt distributors that all failed ...either right away or within one month..id be driving down the freeway and the engine would shut down on all 3 distributors..mind you i was able to restart every time but i came close to getting in an accident once..i returned the "rebuilt" disty and demanded my money back.. i told them i knew they were selling used distributors as rebuilt and i would report them to the better business bureau and channel 5 news. the parts counter guy called corporate and within a half day i had my money back with an added $75 because they didnt have my old core... before returning the last disty i had received from the parts store i bought a good used disty for $75 thru the internet (which worked fine)..i did some research and learned the internal disty module has an extremely high failure rate..so high in fact that a Ford TSB was issued in 2000 on the 93 2.0 ATX distributor module..i found that another Ford tsb was issued on the 93-94 2.5 disty module AND the ignition coil..the 95 and 96 Probe distribitors have high failure rates too..a good permanent fix is to buy a rebuilt distributor from Mazda..Mazda replaces the OEM defective module with a newer revised module and a new ignition coil..the electronic parts are actually made by Mitsubishi..anyways the rebuilt FS01 Mazda distributor is the exact same one the 93 2.0 ATX Probe uses..the 93-94 2.5 Probe uses the same distributor as an MX6 or 626 of the same year as the Probe..it would be a KLXX number. the new module they use has the transistor insulated with porcelin and can withstand higher temperatures of at least 50 degrees F...the 2nd permanent fix for 93-95 cars is to install the DIY GM hei mod..this is much cheaper than a rebuilt Mazda distributor and will work exactly the same as OEM if it is wired up right... get the schematic for your year Probe from the library out of a 93, 94, 95, 96 or 97 Mitchells manual and for $0.30 you can get a paper copy to take with you..wire it up following the Probe ignition schematic and the hei module schematic..i would either crimp on new wires or solder them and use weatherproof heat shrink tubing over the connection..the HEI module only replaces the OEM ignition transistor... it does not fix a CID or CKP sensor problem.. sometimes a trouble code will flash for a failing igniter even though there isnt a specific code for the ignition transistor..to verify a bad igniter module wiggle the 6 pin connector on the disty while the engine is running..the engine will shutdown if the igniter is failing.

[KevinD]

The problem with not cutting the strap is that the collector of the ignitor transistor is still connected to the coil input, and the transistor case is grounded inside the distributor, so a shorted transistor could still keep the signal from reaching the coil.
When I did mine, i just took the screw out of the tab, and put a small piece of tape over the tab to keep it from making contact, and I didn't have any problems; make sure everything is still flat, though, or you could run into mechanical clearance issues.
KevinD