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Need help getting my PGT in tune

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  • #16
    Ok guys, I know this thread is kinda old but figured I'd just post here instead of starting a new one.

    Well I figured out why my PGT refused to idle: the crank was off by one tooth. :/ After fixing that (and yes I checked like six times and the crank and cams are in line now), I am now having issues getting the car to 10 deg BTDC. Even though the disty right now is turned counter-clockwise all the way, the timing hovers between ~14 and ~12 deg BTDC. The engine is idling at around 600-700 rpms and doesn't backfire....that much... but it does surge a bit and I have a code 46 (VRIS #2 solenoid). If I turn the disty past the halfway point, the idle increases but sounds a little better but after around 2/3 of the way, the car will die. So my questions are: will the code 46 affect the idle and make setting timing difficult? Could there be something wrong with my disty?

    TL;DR version:

    1) Found that crank was off by one tooth, fixed it and checked six times, its spot on now.
    2) Car idles without backfiring that much but having trouble getting it to 10 deg BTDC.
    3) Right now, I've gotten it to between ~14 and ~12 BTDC even though the disty is turned all the way counter-clockwise.
    4) Idle does hunt a little, I'd say between 600-700 rpms.
    5) If I turn the disty clockwise, the timing doesn't change much until after past the halfway point (about 2/3 of the way), the car dies.
    6) Also, around halfway, the idle increases and the car sounds like its idling a little better but timing is well past 14 deg BTDC.

    Questions:

    1) Is it the disty?
    2) Can a code 46 cause this or make setting ignition timing difficult?
    3) Any issues with the HEI mod I made? The igniter? The coil?

    Thanks in advance!

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    • #17
      make sure you have the correct rotor in your distributor. There are 2 sizes of the center post and if you put the rotor for the larger size on the smaller one, it can go on all three directions.
      '94 teal w/black int. some sort of sts, 65mm DE TB full KL31 ZE, CAI, Phenolyc spacers, mx3 flywheel, pacesetter headers, 2.5" exhaust, stainless brake lines, MS and LC-1. Charter member Club 15.2 - Mustang Dyno - 187/169 @the wheels
      '90 White GT "Pearl"....uh ohzzzz...I had turboz. Now with T3....now it's J-doggs
      '96 SE & '93 "Red-Eye" smashed and trashed. 97 GTS....crashed, not trashed yet

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      • #18
        I actually bought the disty as one piece a while back so I don't see how the rotor would be the wrong size. I have heard of issues with fitment of the rotor in aftermarket distys so has there been any that just came with the wrong sized rotor?

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        • #19
          there have been cases of distributors coming with the cam alignment end being placed on 180º out....so there are possibilities with it.
          '94 teal w/black int. some sort of sts, 65mm DE TB full KL31 ZE, CAI, Phenolyc spacers, mx3 flywheel, pacesetter headers, 2.5" exhaust, stainless brake lines, MS and LC-1. Charter member Club 15.2 - Mustang Dyno - 187/169 @the wheels
          '90 White GT "Pearl"....uh ohzzzz...I had turboz. Now with T3....now it's J-doggs
          '96 SE & '93 "Red-Eye" smashed and trashed. 97 GTS....crashed, not trashed yet

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          • #20
            Hmm I'll look into that. I just remembered I actually took that disty apart to remove the ignition coil so its possible I might up f%$ked something up when I put it back together...

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            • #21
              Btw does anyone have a write-up or just a series of pics that detail the disassembly and assembly of the disty? I'd even just settle for a few shots of what everything looks like properly aligned so I can compare my disty to it. My initial guess is the rotor itself may be 120 deg off but I may have screwed up attaching the keyway but...all of this is speculation atm.

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              • #22
                Ok I took the Disty apart today. I checked and verified that the rotor fits in only one possible way and did not wobble. Also, I found that the plate behind the reluctor wheel (it passed through two magnets, which I'm guessing are the camshaft sensors) and found that the plate matched with the reluctor wheel via a bump on the plate and a pinhole in the wheel and they weren't aligned. So, I aligned the plate and the wheel, reassembled everything, making sure that all the pieces were in alignment. Running it now...well... the timing is now hella hella retarded! Turning the disty, didn't do too much; the closest I got the timing was ~ 5 deg ATDC (past the 0 mark)

                On top of that, the code 46 came back. When I switched the VRIS 2 connector with VRIS 1, I ended up getting a code 41, so I guess its the solenoid. The funny thing is, when I tested that solenoid by energizing it with a 12 v battery, I heard it click so it is moving.

                So here are my questions:

                1) can a code 41/46 affect ignition timing, even in diagnostic mode?
                2) Can a vacuum issue cause that code? I rerouted the vac lines going into the vac chambers under the intake manifold to an external vacuum chamber. The chamber is under the VAF so the vacuum hoses are pretty long, could that lead to a sufficient drop in vacuum pressure to trigger that code?
                3) What else can affect ignition timing? Remember I have the HEI mod with an external coil so could the ignitor cause any issues?
                4) Do you think I f$%ked up the disty this time?

                Thanks for everybody's input so far. Hopefully there'll be more coming!

                ---------- Post added at 08:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------

                Oh I also want to add that the idle right now is spot on and there is absolutely no backfire plus the TPS is tuned (the fans only come on when I lightly depress the accelerator in diag mode.) In fact, I took the car around the block a couple of times and apart from some slight missing, it drove pretty well and it didn't die when I took it out of gear and into neutral. I am however getting a lot of noxious grey smoke, which I'm betting is carbon and the low-fuel light is on.

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                • #23
                  Are you putting the car in diagnostic mode when you adjust the timing?
                  1994 Project PGT

                  M62 In Progress...

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                  • #24
                    The external vacuum chamber shouldn't hurt. How large is it? Or is it just stock but now on the outside?
                    Some people are living life and some people are just living.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Brizzy View Post
                      Are you putting the car in diagnostic mode when you adjust the timing?
                      Yeah. Not only did the fans come on when I stepped on the gas, the CEL was flashing a code the entire time.

                      Originally posted by yellowrob View Post
                      The external vacuum chamber shouldn't hurt. How large is it? Or is it just stock but now on the outside?
                      This is the part I used: https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...GIzSoASb1oLoCQ I got it from a j/y

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                      • #26
                        Btw, I have another question:

                        If the TPS was out of tune, would that affect ignition timing in diagnostic mode? What about the VAF? Any other sensors? I know the crank sensor is ok since its relatively new but the VAF came with the car when I bought it so idk when that was changed plus I could've done a bad job of tuning the TPS...

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                        • #27
                          Anybody...?

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                          • #28
                            Use the multimeter method of setting up your TPS. If the required numbers are not attainable, then you know the TPS is bad.

                            If you search for it on the forum you should find it.
                            1994 Project PGT

                            M62 In Progress...

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                            • #29
                              Well ok, I'll give it a try. I did set it using the slide gauge method listed in the manual for it but I'll check to see if the TPS is putting out the right voltage readings...

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                              • #30
                                Well, gave the multimeter method a try today. At first, I set the TPS at ~0.70 V but when I switched the car into diag mode, the fans instantly kicked on. So, I redid and found that if I set it below ~0.57 V, the fans don't kick on. So I ended up setting it to 0.55 V. Well the ignition timing is still super retarded, and this is with the disty turned all the clockwise (full advance.) I'm thinking I may have screwed something up when I took the disty apart a little while ago so I'm going to take it apart again to see if I can fix it.

                                If anyone has a writeup or just a cutaway diagram or something for the disty, I'd really love to see it!
                                Last edited by njintau_fsd; June 12, 2015, 05:41 PM.

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